Post by: Airbongo on 24 May 2014, 01:47:55 AM
Post by: Airbongo on 24 May 2014, 01:49:11 AM
Post by: SirLogiC on 24 May 2014, 02:28:07 AM
Fundamentalist religion is the scourge of good though. Like that utterly retarded shit from certain US politicians that raped women shouldn't have abortions because it's God's will to have the child, Muslims with their "jihad", faith healers and healing anywhere for serious illness, scientologists and their rejection of psychoactive medical drugs that have led to some people dying.
Large image sorry, but apt.
(http://www.viruscomix.com/putthatinyourpipeandsmokeit.jpg)
Post by: Airbongo on 24 May 2014, 11:29:47 AM
Post by: Akomine on 25 May 2014, 12:45:16 AM
Post by: Freelix2000 on 14 July 2014, 06:29:31 PM
Post by: Freelix2000 on 14 July 2014, 06:53:50 PM
Fucking militant atheists... with their... equality... and reason and shit. Why can't they just shut up and let religions oppress people like they always have? We don't need change. The status quo is perfect. Romney/Ryan 2012"reason"... That's what I just love about atheism. The "reason" behind it, and its complete consistency with science. The big bang theory, for example, which can either defy the law of conservation of mass which states that matter is neither created nor destroyed, or it can mean that all the mass of the universe was compressed into one tiny area and then for some reason exploded instead of creating a black hole like it always does today and then in the completely accidental explosion created a perfect solar system and a planet with everything to support life and life itself, each being with complex organ systems, tissue, and inside every microscopic cell its own structure and DNA more complicated than any code written by man. Of course evolution explains that, the theory that a tiny organism that's existence still isn't explained somehow survived to evolve into a more complex organism and was somehow complex enough to evolve in the first place, then continued to evolve into an organism so complex that it actually would have needed to be since the beginning to survive. So much reason and logic...
Post by: Airbongo on 14 July 2014, 07:47:19 PM
Do you realize that you believe in a magical being who created the universe?Fucking militant atheists... with their... equality... and reason and shit. Why can't they just shut up and let religions oppress people like they always have? We don't need change. The status quo is perfect. Romney/Ryan 2012"reason"... That's what I just love about atheism. The "reason" behind it, and its complete consistency with science. The big bang theory, for example, which can either defy the law of conservation of mass which states that matter is neither created nor destroyed, or it can mean that all the mass of the universe was compressed into one tiny area and then for some reason exploded instead of creating a black hole like it always does today and then in the completely accidental explosion created a perfect solar system and a planet with everything to support life and life itself, each being with complex organ systems, tissue, and inside every microscopic cell its own structure and DNA more complicated than any code written by man. Of course evolution explains that, the theory that a tiny organism that's existence still isn't explained somehow survived to evolve into a more complex organism and was somehow complex enough to evolve in the first place, then continued to evolve into an organism so complex that it actually would have needed to be since the beginning to survive. So much reason and logic...
Are you denying evolution? You do realize all these changes happened REALLY slowly over millions and millions of year, right? (Unless you are one of the crazy fuckers who still believe the earth is a few thousand years old) If you were half as critical about your religion as you are about science, I guarantee you wouldn't be a Christian anymore. Your holy book is filled with logical fallacies and inconsistencies and you dare mock evolution. #TOPLEL God made Adam and then made Eve using Adam's rib, that makes a lot of sense. Also, your knowledge about evolution isn't very accurate.
Quote
the theory that a tiny organism that's existence still isn't explained somehow"We can't explain its origin yet, Jesus made it!" Then when science explains it, the church adopts this new found knowledge and claims they knew it all along - Christian logic and reason
Post by: Airbongo on 14 July 2014, 07:55:49 PM
Post by: JANUARYJONES on 14 July 2014, 08:07:15 PM
Post by: Freelix2000 on 14 July 2014, 09:16:51 PM
That's not my point. If you look up evolution on Google images, you usually see some shit with a monkey getting taller and becoming a human, but is the starting organism there not already so complex? Of course, that means that it is only showing the end of the evolution process, right? Well where does it begin? The part of atheism that evolution is supposed to explain is the creation of such complex organisms, but for it to serve that purpose, the original organism would have to be as simple as a rock. How the hell, then, can it be complex enough to evolve, or even survive? I've heard of a fish, I can't remember its name or much about it, but it lives in a poisonous type of underwater plant where it hides from its predators, as it is immune to the poison. If it evolved into that over the course of millions of years, how did it survive? To anyone who has any kind of flexibility, the idea of an omnipotent being shouldn't be too hard to at least consider. The question is though, how does it go from that to religion, a religion that is slowly becoming a minority, in a world that is against what the omnipotent and all powerful being wants? Or as you probably see it, how does that relate to some guy named Jesus standing over the universe and whispering to one planet "Don't masturbate". I've thought about that, and I've come up with an answer. When God created the universe, he wanted it for a purpose, just as we create things with a purpose. Of course, his purposes aren't like ours, what he needs is to be acknowledged. So he created, and he created humans in his image. To me that concept explains it all. When it says in Genesis that he created Adam out of dust and Eve out of Adam's rib, I believe that the process may not have occurred exactly like that, but even if it did, he has created life out of life, he created Adam out of himself, and Eve out of Adam. That is actually more consistent with science than many "scientific" theories that rely on the concept of spontaneous generation, an idea that was disproved by both Francesco Redi and Lewis Pasteur in two separate experiments. So, why then is there evil if God wanted good, why don't we simply obey him? It is because he created us in his image, and that includes free will. While he created animals without free will, he wanted species, humanity, to be more than just an organic robot. Something that would choose to follow him, rather than be forced to. Humans fell to sin then, and our imperfect world is our punishment. He would have thrown us away, but he loved us. It is just as if a human were to create something that did not quite serve the purpose we want it to serve, but we keep it because it is our first, or because it has sentimental value. And because he loved us, he wanted to save us. He could not keep us on Earth because the penalty for sin is death, and so he sent a savior, Jesus, to pay the price for our sins. We still have free will because we can deny Jesus and not accept forgiveness, but through him we can be saved and made perfect again, and enter the home that God created for himself with the purpose of remaining perfect. So in the end, all it takes to believe in Christianity is to simply believe that an omnipotent being can exist, the rest is explained by the one concept of God creating in his own image. The reason for pain, death, sin, and the reason why a world against its all powerful creator can exist, is because God didn't want us to blindly follow him, he wanted us to look the other way first, then turn back to him and follow with our eyes wide open.You do realize all these changes happened REALLY slowly over millions and millions of year, right?Fucking militant atheists... with their... equality... and reason and shit. Why can't they just shut up and let religions oppress people like they always have? We don't need change. The status quo is perfect. Romney/Ryan 2012"reason"... That's what I just love about atheism. The "reason" behind it, and its complete consistency with science. The big bang theory, for example, which can either defy the law of conservation of mass which states that matter is neither created nor destroyed, or it can mean that all the mass of the universe was compressed into one tiny area and then for some reason exploded instead of creating a black hole like it always does today and then in the completely accidental explosion created a perfect solar system and a planet with everything to support life and life itself, each being with complex organ systems, tissue, and inside every microscopic cell its own structure and DNA more complicated than any code written by man. Of course evolution explains that, the theory that a tiny organism that's existence still isn't explained somehow survived to evolve into a more complex organism and was somehow complex enough to evolve in the first place, then continued to evolve into an organism so complex that it actually would have needed to be since the beginning to survive. So much reason and logic...
Here's another way to look at it. Imagine that some time in the near future, 15 humans are locked up in an extremely large titanium box. Inside there is water running through a small hole in the top, air flowing through, trees, fruit bearing plants, and many animals and things to provide for the animals. Many generations later, the humans are trying to figure out how they got there. They often study where they are, which is very helpful for finding resources and creating things to make their lives easier. But how could that study ever show them how they got there? How could it explain the infinite stretch of space above them called the sky? It simply cannot. In this case, they would literally have to think outside the box. In the same way, our science cannot explain how we got here or what is beyond us. We think we have seen so much, but we have seen so little. What we have seen is one planet, one over infinite, a number that cannot be described as a decimal because it is infinitely small, and that is enough to completely disprove the existence of a God? Many say that Christians do not think enough, and we are not open minded. But I have considered every other idea, every theory I have ever heard, and I have simply chosen to believe this. But atheists use the little bit that humans have seen, something so small that could never explain how we got here, then you mock any other beliefs and attempt to defeat them with more bullshit.
Post by: JANUARYJONES on 14 July 2014, 09:31:51 PM
Start a new paragraph every once in a while. You know, press enter twice.
Post by: Freelix2000 on 14 July 2014, 09:34:35 PM
Also, I just converted to christianism, excuse me for a second while I go rape and slave some hoes, Jesus won't mind, it's in the bible.Where does it say that in the bible? Also, one more thing. May I ask why this thread is titled "This made me sad"? Don't say its because you're sad that someone is going to die of cancer, because I can't think of a reason that you should feel sorry for anyone for any reason. Have you ever wondered if other people have life or sentience, or are they just organic robots? Of course you would say that they are sentient, and they experience what you experience as a human, but actually according to atheism, the two answers are the same thing. Think of it this way. If you look at an illustration for a book that illustrates a fictional house, wondering if someone else is sentient, or acting as if they were, is like looking at the image of a fictional house and wondering if there is a dog behind it, or a person inside it. Unless the author mentioned it, the answer is neither yes or no, because the answers are the same thing. It cannot be yes or no because the image's perspective does not show it, and there is no greater intelligence that says it is there. According to atheism you're not seeing life in one of a million perspectives, it simply is your perspective. Anything outside of your view neither does nor doesn't exist. So why, then, does this make you sad?
Post by: Airbongo on 14 July 2014, 11:49:08 PM
Post by: ChaosMushrooms on 15 July 2014, 02:13:59 AM
Post by: SirLogiC on 15 July 2014, 07:52:07 AM
That's not my point. If you look up evolution on Google images, you usually see some shit with a monkey getting taller and becoming a human, but is the starting organism there not already so complex? Of course, that means that it is only showing the end of the evolution process, right? Well where does it begin? The part of atheism that evolution is supposed to explain is the creation of such complex organisms, but for it to serve that purpose, the original organism would have to be as simple as a rock. How the hell, then, can it be complex enough to evolve, or even survive? I've heard of a fish, I can't remember its name or much about it, but it lives in a poisonous type of underwater plant where it hides from its predators, as it is immune to the poison. If it evolved into that over the course of millions of years, how did it survive? To anyone who has any kind of flexibility, the idea of an omnipotent being shouldn't be too hard to at least consider. The question is though, how does it go from that to religion, a religion that is slowly becoming a minority, in a world that is against what the omnipotent and all powerful being wants? Or as you probably see it, how does that relate to some guy named Jesus standing over the universe and whispering to one planet "Don't masturbate". I've thought about that, and I've come up with an answer. When God created the universe, he wanted it for a purpose, just as we create things with a purpose. Of course, his purposes aren't like ours, what he needs is to be acknowledged. So he created, and he created humans in his image. To me that concept explains it all. When it says in Genesis that he created Adam out of dust and Eve out of Adam's rib, I believe that the process may not have occurred exactly like that, but even if it did, he has created life out of life, he created Adam out of himself, and Eve out of Adam. That is actually more consistent with science than many "scientific" theories that rely on the concept of spontaneous generation, an idea that was disproved by both Francesco Redi and Lewis Pasteur in two separate experiments. So, why then is there evil if God wanted good, why don't we simply obey him? It is because he created us in his image, and that includes free will. While he created animals without free will, he wanted species, humanity, to be more than just an organic robot. Something that would choose to follow him, rather than be forced to. Humans fell to sin then, and our imperfect world is our punishment. He would have thrown us away, but he loved us. It is just as if a human were to create something that did not quite serve the purpose we want it to serve, but we keep it because it is our first, or because it has sentimental value. And because he loved us, he wanted to save us. He could not keep us on Earth because the penalty for sin is death, and so he sent a savior, Jesus, to pay the price for our sins. We still have free will because we can deny Jesus and not accept forgiveness, but through him we can be saved and made perfect again, and enter the home that God created for himself with the purpose of remaining perfect. So in the end, all it takes to believe in Christianity is to simply believe that an omnipotent being can exist, the rest is explained by the one concept of God creating in his own image. The reason for pain, death, sin, and the reason why a world against its all powerful creator can exist, is because God didn't want us to blindly follow him, he wanted us to look the other way first, then turn back to him and follow with our eyes wide open.You do realize all these changes happened REALLY slowly over millions and millions of year, right?Fucking militant atheists... with their... equality... and reason and shit. Why can't they just shut up and let religions oppress people like they always have? We don't need change. The status quo is perfect. Romney/Ryan 2012"reason"... That's what I just love about atheism. The "reason" behind it, and its complete consistency with science. The big bang theory, for example, which can either defy the law of conservation of mass which states that matter is neither created nor destroyed, or it can mean that all the mass of the universe was compressed into one tiny area and then for some reason exploded instead of creating a black hole like it always does today and then in the completely accidental explosion created a perfect solar system and a planet with everything to support life and life itself, each being with complex organ systems, tissue, and inside every microscopic cell its own structure and DNA more complicated than any code written by man. Of course evolution explains that, the theory that a tiny organism that's existence still isn't explained somehow survived to evolve into a more complex organism and was somehow complex enough to evolve in the first place, then continued to evolve into an organism so complex that it actually would have needed to be since the beginning to survive. So much reason and logic...
Here's another way to look at it. Imagine that some time in the near future, 15 humans are locked up in an extremely large titanium box. Inside there is water running through a small hole in the top, air flowing through, trees, fruit bearing plants, and many animals and things to provide for the animals. Many generations later, the humans are trying to figure out how they got there. They often study where they are, which is very helpful for finding resources and creating things to make their lives easier. But how could that study ever show them how they got there? How could it explain the infinite stretch of space above them called the sky? It simply cannot. In this case, they would literally have to think outside the box. In the same way, our science cannot explain how we got here or what is beyond us. We think we have seen so much, but we have seen so little. What we have seen is one planet, one over infinite, a number that cannot be described as a decimal because it is infinitely small, and that is enough to completely disprove the existence of a God? Many say that Christians do not think enough, and we are not open minded. But I have considered every other idea, every theory I have ever heard, and I have simply chosen to believe this. But atheists use the little bit that humans have seen, something so small that could never explain how we got here, then you mock any other beliefs and attempt to defeat them with more bullshit.
Science isn't atheist, science is open to the possibility there is a god that created the universe. All you have to do is find observable, testable proof. Really evolution has nothing to do with atheism.
Theism is the belief in a god or gods. That's it. If you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster you are theist. Buddhism as a religion has no creator god(s), that makes it an atheist religion. Science has nothing to do with religion.
The second big mistake you make is thinking that evolution means things get "more advanced". Viruses couldn't exist without there first being cellular organisms for them to infect. They are less complex than bacteria but equally "more evolved". Human's didn't come from apes. Apes and monkeys came from a common ancestor.
The solar system isn't perfect, nor is the universe. Usually it being considered perfect is a belief of religions, with humans being imperfect beings (having choice) that causes the trouble.
The fish you are talking about is the clown fish.
Ok there are many parts to evolution. There is selection pressure, environmental pressure, which is further influenced by random mutation due to sexual reproduction. Environmental pressure depends on the environment lol, but like is it a stable environment (polar regions? grass plains?) or unstable (deep sea volcanic vent? hot summer + snowy winter?). A rapid change in the environment can lead to rapid adaptive evolution. So like if you dropped a heap of African Swallows in Northern US, most will likely die with the first snow. Any that survive and manage to breed would have resistance to the cold, they would also need to adapt to a new diet. After some generations, if they still survive, the offspring will have adapted to the new environment. It isn't because they changed themselves, it's because those that survived could survive.
Evolution occurs because many die. We are alive today because our chain of ancestors managed to find food, shelter, find mates, resisted injury and disease. We didn't become "more complex", we didn't choose to be more intelligent, it was just something that helped our species survive in the past, because those that weren't as smart or aggressive or short sighted or as stubborn about challenging their beliefs died. People are stubborn about challenging their beliefs, of being critical thinkers, because in the past challenging the wisdom of what is edible or what is safe to hunt or when is a good time to move to a new area to collect berries lead to people dying.
People miss-perceive evolution as some grand design or directed purpose but it isn't, it is purely incidental to successful production of offspring. Religious people tend to not like that, they want there to be a purpose or meaning so thinking that they are lucky to be alive right now doesn't ever occur to them, they prefer to think they have a divine right to be alive now.
Post by: Akomine on 15 July 2014, 02:05:37 PM
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/tip-hat.gif)
Let's play a game called "Randomly drag my mouse through Freelix's sea of text and copy+paste what I get here then respond to it", shall we?
Quote
how does that relate to some guy named Jesus standing over the universe and whispering to one planet "Don't masturbate". I've thought about that, and I've come up with an answer. When God created the universe, he wanted it for a purpose, just as we create things with a purpose. Of course, his purposes aren't like ours, what he needs is to be acknowledged. So he created, and he created humans in his image. To me that concept explains it all. When it says in Genesis that he created Adam out of dust and Eve out of Adam's rib, I believe that the process may not have occurred exactly like that, but even if it did, he has created life out of life, he created Adam out of himself, and Eve out of Adam. That is actually more consistent with science than many "scientific" theories that rely on the concept of spontaneous generation, an idea that was disproved by both Francesco Redi and Lewis Pasteur in two separate experiments.
Why do you make this stuff up? Why not just read about evolution? I don't get it. We have overwhelming peer-reviewed evidence which includes fossils and observation of evolution in action, all of which you can look up. Orrrrr we have your ass, and the asses of anonymous men in the iron age who compiled a complete mess of a book. Which one is more reliably correct?
You start at the position that your god exists but don't have proof. Prove your god is real. Why aren't other people's gods the real ones?
You make things up about your god and the universe that sound nice to you, rather than follow what the evidence says. Prove the universe has purpose.
And hold on one second... you believe in adam and eve? You think the human race is only a few thousand years old? You claim this is actually MORE consistent with science? You should stop using the words "science" and "theory" until you can grasp what they are. I'd be happy to point you in the right direction if you're willing to learn.
Also, what the fuck are you thinking calling spontaneous generation a scientific theory? Are you pretending that is what scientists claim about evolution? Honestly, man, you REALLY need to read about evolution some more, it's pretty cool stuff. You clearly don't understand it. If you're interested in the scientific study of where life began on Earth, then look into abiogenesis. The Bible is not a science book, it is an ancient poetry book at best.
Post by: CSB on 15 July 2014, 05:23:48 PM
The Bible is not a science book, it is an ancient poetry book at best.
Not REKT
REKT
Post by: ThePandaWonder on 15 July 2014, 05:28:24 PM
The Bible is not a science book, it is an ancient poetry book at best.
I said this countless times (IRL) if I someone got their hands on a time machine and replaced the bible with another Fairy tale book, everyone would believe that Unicorns are real. The bible is just a book that was in the right place at the right time with the right people to make it a religion
Post by: Freelix2000 on 15 July 2014, 06:27:24 PM
Thank you, Sir, for posting a factually correct responseFossils don't prove shit. They prove that organisms do evolve over time, but not the evolution theory. I believe that a creature can become more advanced and evolve over time, that doesn't mean that humans started with some tiny life form that's presence still isn't explained, then over millions of years magically evolved into a million species. Again, the evolution theory is supposed to explain how a random explosion can create complex life, and it doesn't really explain that unless the starting organism was incredibly simple, to simple to evolve or even survive.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/tip-hat.gif)
Let's play a game called "Randomly drag my mouse through Freelix's sea of text and copy+paste what I get here then respond to it", shall we?Quotehow does that relate to some guy named Jesus standing over the universe and whispering to one planet "Don't masturbate". I've thought about that, and I've come up with an answer. When God created the universe, he wanted it for a purpose, just as we create things with a purpose. Of course, his purposes aren't like ours, what he needs is to be acknowledged. So he created, and he created humans in his image. To me that concept explains it all. When it says in Genesis that he created Adam out of dust and Eve out of Adam's rib, I believe that the process may not have occurred exactly like that, but even if it did, he has created life out of life, he created Adam out of himself, and Eve out of Adam. That is actually more consistent with science than many "scientific" theories that rely on the concept of spontaneous generation, an idea that was disproved by both Francesco Redi and Lewis Pasteur in two separate experiments.
Why do you make this stuff up? Why not just read about evolution? I don't get it. We have overwhelming peer-reviewed evidence which includes fossils and observation of evolution in action, all of which you can look up. Orrrrr we have your ass, and the asses of anonymous men in the iron age who compiled a complete mess of a book. Which one is more reliably correct?
You start at the position that your god exists but don't have proof. Prove your god is real. Why aren't other people's gods the real ones?
You make things up about your god and the universe that sound nice to you, rather than follow what the evidence says. Prove the universe has purpose.
And hold on one second... you believe in adam and eve? You think the human race is only a few thousand years old? You claim this is actually MORE consistent with science? You should stop using the words "science" and "theory" until you can grasp what they are. I'd be happy to point you in the right direction if you're willing to learn.
Also, what the fuck are you thinking calling spontaneous generation a scientific theory? Are you pretending that is what scientists claim about evolution? Honestly, man, you REALLY need to read about evolution some more, it's pretty cool stuff. You clearly don't understand it. If you're interested in the scientific study of where life began on Earth, then look into abiogenesis. The Bible is not a science book, it is an ancient poetry book at best.
Post by: Freelix2000 on 15 July 2014, 06:34:01 PM
Thank you, Sir, for posting a factually correct responseJust read a bit more of your bullshit and realized I didn't address everything. First, I started that point from the position that my God exists without first proving it because proving it wasn't the point I was making at that moment. I was explaining how it goes from one omnipotent being to the religion I believe, and second because honestly I cannot prove that my God exists. Just as you cannot disprove him.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/tip-hat.gif)
Let's play a game called "Randomly drag my mouse through Freelix's sea of text and copy+paste what I get here then respond to it", shall we?Quotehow does that relate to some guy named Jesus standing over the universe and whispering to one planet "Don't masturbate". I've thought about that, and I've come up with an answer. When God created the universe, he wanted it for a purpose, just as we create things with a purpose. Of course, his purposes aren't like ours, what he needs is to be acknowledged. So he created, and he created humans in his image. To me that concept explains it all. When it says in Genesis that he created Adam out of dust and Eve out of Adam's rib, I believe that the process may not have occurred exactly like that, but even if it did, he has created life out of life, he created Adam out of himself, and Eve out of Adam. That is actually more consistent with science than many "scientific" theories that rely on the concept of spontaneous generation, an idea that was disproved by both Francesco Redi and Lewis Pasteur in two separate experiments.
Why do you make this stuff up? Why not just read about evolution? I don't get it. We have overwhelming peer-reviewed evidence which includes fossils and observation of evolution in action, all of which you can look up. Orrrrr we have your ass, and the asses of anonymous men in the iron age who compiled a complete mess of a book. Which one is more reliably correct?
You start at the position that your god exists but don't have proof. Prove your god is real. Why aren't other people's gods the real ones?
You make things up about your god and the universe that sound nice to you, rather than follow what the evidence says. Prove the universe has purpose.
And hold on one second... you believe in adam and eve? You think the human race is only a few thousand years old? You claim this is actually MORE consistent with science? You should stop using the words "science" and "theory" until you can grasp what they are. I'd be happy to point you in the right direction if you're willing to learn.
Also, what the fuck are you thinking calling spontaneous generation a scientific theory? Are you pretending that is what scientists claim about evolution? Honestly, man, you REALLY need to read about evolution some more, it's pretty cool stuff. You clearly don't understand it. If you're interested in the scientific study of where life began on Earth, then look into abiogenesis. The Bible is not a science book, it is an ancient poetry book at best.
When I said that is more consistent with science, I wasn't exactly talking about the evolution theory. I've heard a lot of bullshit about where life starts, where the first simple organism came from, and the one I was really addressing is the theory that it came from some "chemicals of life" on a comet or meteor and landed in an ocean or lake, then somehow became life. That theory agrees with spontaneous generation, a theory that has been disproved.
Post by: Airbongo on 15 July 2014, 06:49:10 PM
That has nothing to do with evolution.Thank you, Sir, for posting a factually correct responseJust read a bit more of your bullshit and realized I didn't address everything. First, I started that point from the position that my God exists without first proving it because proving it wasn't the point I was making at that moment. I was explaining how it goes from one omnipotent being to the religion I believe, and second because honestly I cannot prove that my God exists. Just as you cannot disprove him.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/tip-hat.gif)
Let's play a game called "Randomly drag my mouse through Freelix's sea of text and copy+paste what I get here then respond to it", shall we?Quotehow does that relate to some guy named Jesus standing over the universe and whispering to one planet "Don't masturbate". I've thought about that, and I've come up with an answer. When God created the universe, he wanted it for a purpose, just as we create things with a purpose. Of course, his purposes aren't like ours, what he needs is to be acknowledged. So he created, and he created humans in his image. To me that concept explains it all. When it says in Genesis that he created Adam out of dust and Eve out of Adam's rib, I believe that the process may not have occurred exactly like that, but even if it did, he has created life out of life, he created Adam out of himself, and Eve out of Adam. That is actually more consistent with science than many "scientific" theories that rely on the concept of spontaneous generation, an idea that was disproved by both Francesco Redi and Lewis Pasteur in two separate experiments.
Why do you make this stuff up? Why not just read about evolution? I don't get it. We have overwhelming peer-reviewed evidence which includes fossils and observation of evolution in action, all of which you can look up. Orrrrr we have your ass, and the asses of anonymous men in the iron age who compiled a complete mess of a book. Which one is more reliably correct?
You start at the position that your god exists but don't have proof. Prove your god is real. Why aren't other people's gods the real ones?
You make things up about your god and the universe that sound nice to you, rather than follow what the evidence says. Prove the universe has purpose.
And hold on one second... you believe in adam and eve? You think the human race is only a few thousand years old? You claim this is actually MORE consistent with science? You should stop using the words "science" and "theory" until you can grasp what they are. I'd be happy to point you in the right direction if you're willing to learn.
Also, what the fuck are you thinking calling spontaneous generation a scientific theory? Are you pretending that is what scientists claim about evolution? Honestly, man, you REALLY need to read about evolution some more, it's pretty cool stuff. You clearly don't understand it. If you're interested in the scientific study of where life began on Earth, then look into abiogenesis. The Bible is not a science book, it is an ancient poetry book at best.
When I said that is more consistent with science, I wasn't exactly talking about the evolution theory. I've heard a lot of bullshit about where life starts, where the first simple organism came from, and the one I was really addressing is the theory that it came from some "chemicals of life" on a comet or meteor and landed in an ocean or lake, then somehow became life. That theory agrees with spontaneous generation, a theory that has been disproved.
"Just read a bit more of your bullshit"
Please enlighten us, wheres the bullshit?
Post by: Airbongo on 15 July 2014, 06:57:42 PM
I don't understand it when people call themselves Christians while nit picking the book they based their believes on.
Post by: Akomine on 15 July 2014, 07:18:45 PM
Fossils don't prove shit. They prove that organisms do evolve over time, but not the evolution theory.WHAT?
Fossils don't prove shit.
Fossils do prove evolution.
Fossils don't prove evolution.
Make up your mind.
Among other things, fossils are excellent sources of evidence for evolution and the age of life on Earth (far older than Adam and Eve).
Quote
I believe that a creature can become more advanced and evolve over time, that doesn't mean that humans started with some tiny life form that's presence still isn't explained, then over millions of years magically evolved into a million species.Just because we do not currently have a complete understanding of abiogenesis does NOT mean evolution is invalid. Abiogenesis (the start of life) is a completely different study from evolution. Science is constantly expanding our knowledge, and not yet knowing things is not grounds for discrediting it. I take issue with your use of the word magic, because speciation is an ever more well-understood physical process, completely magic-free.
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Again, the evolution theory is supposed to explain how a random explosion can create complex life, and it doesn't really explain that unless the starting organism was incredibly simple, to simple to evolve or even survive.No, evolution is not supposed to explain the origins of our universe. Evolution explains speciation. An evolutionary biologist and an astrophysicist are involved in very different fields of science.
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Just read a bit more of your bullshit and realized I didn't address everything. First, I started that point from the position that my God exists without first proving it because proving it wasn't the point I was making at that moment.Fair enough. I did just grab a slice of text because you wrote a massive wall. Regardless, you need to prove your god exists before making claims based on it existing.
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I was explaining how it goes from one omnipotent being to the religion I believe, and second because honestly I cannot prove that my God exists. Just as you cannot disprove him.(http://shittybanter.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/bingo.gif)
I do not need to disprove something that does not exist. The burden of proof is on the person who is making the claim. Prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. Oh you can't? FSM MUST BE REAL! ONE TRUE LORD. NOODLY APPENDAGES TOUCH US ALL.
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When I said that is more consistent with science, I wasn't exactly talking about the evolution theory. I've heard a lot of bullshit about where life starts, where the first simple organism came from, and the one I was really addressing is the theory that it came from some "chemicals of life" on a comet or meteor and landed in an ocean or lake, then somehow became life. That theory agrees with spontaneous generation, a theory that has been disproved.If I recall correctly, spontaneous generation is disproven bullshit that says things like dustmites can suddenly come into existence from dust. It is a very old idea that predates science. It is obviously incorrect.
The hypothesis that organic chemicals can form rudimentary processes that can then become basic prokaryote-esque cellular life is being investigated, and is not necessarily complete bullshit. It may actually be accurate. Scientists are trying to replicate the environment that existed in Earth's early history that may have given rise to this type of abiogenesis.
Life coming from a space object is also interesting, because we know that some animals are capable of living unprotected in space, such as tardigrades.
Post by: Airbongo on 15 July 2014, 07:34:09 PM
Post by: Freelix2000 on 15 July 2014, 07:40:02 PM
Fossils prove evolution. They do not prove that humans and every other species evolved from one small organism from space.Fossils don't prove shit. They prove that organisms do evolve over time, but not the evolution theory.WHAT?
Fossils don't prove shit.
Fossils do prove evolution.
Fossils don't prove evolution.
Make up your mind.
Among other things, fossils are excellent sources of evidence for evolution and the age of life on Earth (far older than Adam and Eve).QuoteI believe that a creature can become more advanced and evolve over time, that doesn't mean that humans started with some tiny life form that's presence still isn't explained, then over millions of years magically evolved into a million species.Just because we do not currently have a complete understanding of abiogenesis does NOT mean evolution is invalid. Abiogenesis (the start of life) is a completely different study from evolution. Science is constantly expanding our knowledge, and not yet knowing things is not grounds for discrediting it. I take issue with your use of the word magic, because speciation is an ever more well-understood physical process, completely magic-free.QuoteAgain, the evolution theory is supposed to explain how a random explosion can create complex life, and it doesn't really explain that unless the starting organism was incredibly simple, to simple to evolve or even survive.No, evolution is not supposed to explain the origins of our universe. Evolution explains speciation. An evolutionary biologist and an astrophysicist are involved in very different fields of science.QuoteJust read a bit more of your bullshit and realized I didn't address everything. First, I started that point from the position that my God exists without first proving it because proving it wasn't the point I was making at that moment.Fair enough. I did just grab a slice of text because you wrote a massive wall. Regardless, you need to prove your god exists before making claims based on it existing.QuoteI was explaining how it goes from one omnipotent being to the religion I believe, and second because honestly I cannot prove that my God exists. Just as you cannot disprove him.(http://shittybanter.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/bingo.gif)
I do not need to disprove something that does not exist. The burden of proof is on the person who is making the claim. Prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. Oh you can't? FSM MUST BE REAL! ONE TRUE LORD. NOODLY APPENDAGES TOUCH US ALL.QuoteWhen I said that is more consistent with science, I wasn't exactly talking about the evolution theory. I've heard a lot of bullshit about where life starts, where the first simple organism came from, and the one I was really addressing is the theory that it came from some "chemicals of life" on a comet or meteor and landed in an ocean or lake, then somehow became life. That theory agrees with spontaneous generation, a theory that has been disproved.If I recall correctly, spontaneous generation is disproven bullshit that says things like dustmites can suddenly come into existence from dust. It is a very old idea that predates science. It is obviously incorrect.
The hypothesis that organic chemicals can form rudimentary processes that can then become basic prokaryote-esque cellular life is being investigated, and is not necessarily complete bullshit. It may actually be accurate. Scientists are trying to replicate the environment that existed in Earth's early history that may have given rise to this type of abiogenesis.
Life coming from a space object is also interesting, because we know that some animals are capable of living unprotected in space, such as tardigrades.
I never said evolution was invalid. I said your proof is invalid for proving that humans and many other species of Earth evolved from a small organism from space.
I didn't say evolution is supposed to explain the origins of the universe. I said its supposed to explain how a complex organism with organ systems to support its life, organs that function to serve countless purposes for countless species, each one with thousands of cells with their own structure and DNA more complicated than any written code, could occur from the creation of a universe that was not created by an intelligent being. And really, evolution does an extremely shitty job at explaining that.
Post by: Freelix2000 on 15 July 2014, 07:41:21 PM
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs14/f/2007/064/4/3/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster_Icon_by_TestingPointDesign.jpg)Would you like to contribute to the debate, or just post shit? I do understand that VC forums is the best place on the internet for shitposting, and if you would like I can go to Google images and find something for atheism as well.
Post by: Airbongo on 15 July 2014, 07:53:10 PM
What? Sir and Ako already pointed out all of the fallacies in your argument and you proved little understanding about evolution. I was simply trying to add some comedic value to the thread because it was turning bitter (your angry comment is a perfect example). No need to get your jimmies rustled.(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs14/f/2007/064/4/3/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster_Icon_by_TestingPointDesign.jpg)Would you like to contribute to the debate, or just post shit? I do understand that VC forums is the best place on the internet for shitposting, and if you would like I can go to Google images and find something for atheism as well.
Please get some pictures bashing atheism, they make me feel fuzzy inside.
Post by: Akomine on 15 July 2014, 08:10:35 PM
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Fossils prove evolution.Correct.
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They do not prove that humans and every other species evolved from one small organism from space.???
Correct, we do not have a fossil of a space creature. I have no idea what this has to do with anything.
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I never said evolution was invalid. I said your proof is invalid for proving that humans and many other species of Earth evolved from a small organism from space.???
When did I ever claim this? None of us here did. Why are you saying we did? WHAT?
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I didn't say evolution is supposed to explain the origins of the universe.WHAT THE HELL? The big bang has fucking nothing to do with evolution, and yet look at what you said:
Fossils don't prove shit. They prove that organisms do evolve over time, but not the evolution theory. I believe that a creature can become more advanced and evolve over time, that doesn't mean that humans started with some tiny life form that's presence still isn't explained, then over millions of years magically evolved into a million species. Again, the evolution theory is supposed to explain how a random explosion can create complex life, and it doesn't really explain that unless the starting organism was incredibly simple, to simple to evolve or even survive.
You clearly lack an understanding of both concepts. I'm not trying to be rude by saying this, I'm just trying to point out that you need to increase you knowledge in these areas so you don't make these mistakes.
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I said its supposed to explain how a complex organism with organ systems to support its life, organs that function to serve countless purposes for countless species, each one with thousands of cells with their own structure and DNA more complicated than any written code, could occur from the creation of a universe that was not created by an intelligent being. And really, evolution does an extremely shitty job at explaining that.So because it is hard for you to comprehend the sheer scale of evolution, you just revert to "oh god must have done it"? Pretty lame. Often what religious people do though, so not unexpected.
Evolution does an excellent job of explaining how one population can change over time. Given a LOT of time, the changes can be drastic. Given a LOT LOT LOT of time, an organism's evolutionary tree can go on to become many new species, including ones much, much different. This includes an aquatic creature serving as the ancestor to modern great apes (such as humans). Just because something is very complex does not mean it requires a deity.
Interestingly enough, evolution is very imperfect. Humans have bad backs because we are unusual among great apes in that we stand upright, and yet the evolution of our backs is not up to snuff. Giraffes have incredibly long laryngeal nerves that go from their brain, all the way down their neck and then back up again to their larynx, because they evolved to have very long necks but evolution does not have an end goal or work perfectly. The result is an extremely inefficient nerve spanning metres instead of centimetres. Pretty poorly designed there, god.
If your god designed it, why did he do such a bad job?
Also, since you can't prove your god, why do you bother believing in him? Why not another god? Why not no god? Please consider the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for he is so noodly and delicious.
Post by: Freelix2000 on 15 July 2014, 09:31:25 PM
QuoteFossils prove evolution.Correct.QuoteThey do not prove that humans and every other species evolved from one small organism from space.???
Correct, we do not have a fossil of a space creature. I have no idea what this has to do with anything.QuoteI never said evolution was invalid. I said your proof is invalid for proving that humans and many other species of Earth evolved from a small organism from space.???
When did I ever claim this? None of us here did. Why are you saying we did? WHAT?QuoteI didn't say evolution is supposed to explain the origins of the universe.WHAT THE HELL? The big bang has fucking nothing to do with evolution, and yet look at what you said:Fossils don't prove shit. They prove that organisms do evolve over time, but not the evolution theory. I believe that a creature can become more advanced and evolve over time, that doesn't mean that humans started with some tiny life form that's presence still isn't explained, then over millions of years magically evolved into a million species. Again, the evolution theory is supposed to explain how a random explosion can create complex life, and it doesn't really explain that unless the starting organism was incredibly simple, to simple to evolve or even survive.
You clearly lack an understanding of both concepts. I'm not trying to be rude by saying this, I'm just trying to point out that you need to increase you knowledge in these areas so you don't make these mistakes.QuoteI said its supposed to explain how a complex organism with organ systems to support its life, organs that function to serve countless purposes for countless species, each one with thousands of cells with their own structure and DNA more complicated than any written code, could occur from the creation of a universe that was not created by an intelligent being. And really, evolution does an extremely shitty job at explaining that.So because it is hard for you to comprehend the sheer scale of evolution, you just revert to "oh god must have done it"? Pretty lame. Often what religious people do though, so not unexpected.
Evolution does an excellent job of explaining how one population can change over time. Given a LOT of time, the changes can be drastic. Given a LOT LOT LOT of time, an organism's evolutionary tree can go on to become many new species, including ones much, much different. This includes an aquatic creature serving as the ancestor to modern great apes (such as humans). Just because something is very complex does not mean it requires a deity.
Interestingly enough, evolution is very imperfect. Humans have bad backs because we are unusual among great apes in that we stand upright, and yet the evolution of our backs is not up to snuff. Giraffes have incredibly long laryngeal nerves that go from their brain, all the way down their neck and then back up again to their larynx, because they evolved to have very long necks but evolution does not have an end goal or work perfectly. The result is an extremely inefficient nerve spanning metres instead of centimetres. Pretty poorly designed there, god.
If your god designed it, why did he do such a bad job?
Also, since you can't prove your god, why do you bother believing in him? Why not another god? Why not no god? Please consider the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for he is so noodly and delicious.
???
When did I ever claim this? None of us here did. Why are you saying we did? WHAT?
This includes an aquatic creature serving as the ancestor to modern great apes (such as humans). Just because something is very complex does not mean it requires a deity.I understand that the next thing I said did include the big bang theory, but I wasn't pointing my focus towards it, just using one of the atheist examples of how the universe was created. I was saying that evolution is supposed to explain how organisms can become what they are today from the start of the universe, if the universe was not created by an intelligent being. It does terrible at explaining that because that would mean the starting organism would have to be extremely simple, too simple to survive of evolve. I do not say that God must have done it because I cannot comprehend evolution, but because it simply does not add up. Here's a shitty example, but you get the point: If giraffes have long necks so that they can eat from the top of tall trees and plants, how did they survive before evolving into that? That's a bad example because a giraffe probably could survive without its long neck, but what about the many other organisms that inherit essential traits to help them survive in their environment that they simply could not live without? Is it because they started in another environment? If so, that would mean the change would have had to occur within a day, or they would have had to have started developing a long neck before they ever even needed to eat from a tall tree.
Giraffes have incredibly long laryngeal nerves that go from their brain, all the way down their neck and then back up again to their larynx, because they evolved to have very long necks but evolution does not have an end goal or work perfectly. The result is an extremely inefficient nerve spanning metres instead of centimetres. Pretty poorly designed there, god.Maybe God doesn't want all animals to be super animals? But why the hell would a tiny change that occurs over millions of years have flaws? It seems like a process that takes so long and works so slowly should be more precise.
Also, since you can't prove your god, why do you bother believing in him?Ako, please just take the time to read this. =P
You can't prove evolution. You can't prove the big bang theory. You can give reasons to believe it, just as I can give reasons to believe in God, but you cannot prove it. No theory for how we got here has ever been proven. Why not another god? The other religions don't make sense to me. They offer no explanation for why we live in a world with sin, why their god does not show himself and make himself well known, or a reason why their god hasn't killed us all because of our imperfections. The Bible includes explanation for all of that.
We live on one of millions of planets that just happens to be perfect for supporting life. We only find life where we are, and we only find intelligent lives in ourselves. When we find something that is not immediately explained and appears to have structure and design, like the Stonehenge, we begin to wonder what intelligent life has created it. Now we see our planet, perfect for supporting life, with plants that bear fruit for us and streams that provide water for us. When we look close enough at our own hands, we see millions of cells, each one with DNA more complicated than any written code or language. And now we think it came from an explosion. We know we got here somehow and we have many ideas, but really the only difference between atheism and theism is the difference between thinking we, a species that is complex beyond even our own understanding, (mostly referring to our lack of ability to create intelligence) either came from intelligence or random explosions. There are obviously things that we cannot see, such as our own sentience. We are not simply moving parts, we can actually feel and experience, and we assume the ones around us do too. That cannot be explained by science, and science cannot prove that it must be accompanied by a body, nor that its power or knowledge should be limited. Science therefore cannot disprove God, and although many of us do not believe because we do not see it, even logic cannot defy a God. That is why I choose to believe.
Also, Ako, I found a bug in my Halo plugin... You may not want to install it yet. I'm working on a fix. =)
Post by: JANUARYJONES on 15 July 2014, 09:45:56 PM
Quote from: Freelix2000
I do understand that VC forums is the best place on the internet for shitposting
What do you think your posts are on VC?
When I said you should let this go it was good advice. Nobody here is going to take you serious or probably even read what you have to say when you make solid walls of text and are incapable of debating because you are so hostile and getting your jimmies rustled.
Post by: Akomine on 15 July 2014, 09:49:47 PM
Post by: Akomine on 15 July 2014, 10:27:10 PM
As to the giraffe thing, you really don't get evolution. Giraffes as a species are still evolving. All species are still evolving. Giraffes have long necks because over millions of years, a longer neck was a trait that allowed them to survive. I'm sure several of their ancestors died being unable to reach high up food in a drought or something like that. No the changes do not need to take place in a day. They take place over time through generations of animals. Even just a few generations you can see changes, such as the shapes of the beaks in Galapagos Islands finches.
And no, evolution is not perfect or precise. Just because it takes a long time doesn't mean it is precise. It is not aiming for a goal, it is just what happens to work. Think of survival as a game with many different strategies to winning. Every creature alive today is playing the game and winning. There are many, many, many more who lost. The crazy part is that evolution is not a conscious process, and the creatures winning at it just happen to be winning because over millions of years they have favourable traits.
And again, just because the universe is complex does not mean it has to have been created by the Christian deity. The bible doesn't explain shit. It's a complete contradictory mess. Many parts of it have been disproven. You have a very skewed perception of science. Believe what you want to believe, you have every right and we have full free speech on this server... but you should at least educate yourself on the science to be able to debate it. It is able to prove things, and if you research with an open mind you will be able to find flaws and falsehoods in the bible that simply cannot be overlooked without cognitive dissonance.
Science is a system where we determine what is and isn't true (what is reality). The bible is an ancient book of fairy tales and how it has lived on into 2014 as a factual book is cray. One of them is worth drawing facts from, one of them is not.
Post by: Airbongo on 15 July 2014, 10:37:12 PM
(http://www.ripcitybadboys.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/mind-blown-2.gif)QuoteFossils prove evolution.Correct.QuoteThey do not prove that humans and every other species evolved from one small organism from space.???
Correct, we do not have a fossil of a space creature. I have no idea what this has to do with anything.QuoteI never said evolution was invalid. I said your proof is invalid for proving that humans and many other species of Earth evolved from a small organism from space.???
When did I ever claim this? None of us here did. Why are you saying we did? WHAT?QuoteI didn't say evolution is supposed to explain the origins of the universe.WHAT THE HELL? The big bang has fucking nothing to do with evolution, and yet look at what you said:Fossils don't prove shit. They prove that organisms do evolve over time, but not the evolution theory. I believe that a creature can become more advanced and evolve over time, that doesn't mean that humans started with some tiny life form that's presence still isn't explained, then over millions of years magically evolved into a million species. Again, the evolution theory is supposed to explain how a random explosion can create complex life, and it doesn't really explain that unless the starting organism was incredibly simple, to simple to evolve or even survive.
You clearly lack an understanding of both concepts. I'm not trying to be rude by saying this, I'm just trying to point out that you need to increase you knowledge in these areas so you don't make these mistakes.QuoteI said its supposed to explain how a complex organism with organ systems to support its life, organs that function to serve countless purposes for countless species, each one with thousands of cells with their own structure and DNA more complicated than any written code, could occur from the creation of a universe that was not created by an intelligent being. And really, evolution does an extremely shitty job at explaining that.So because it is hard for you to comprehend the sheer scale of evolution, you just revert to "oh god must have done it"? Pretty lame. Often what religious people do though, so not unexpected.
Evolution does an excellent job of explaining how one population can change over time. Given a LOT of time, the changes can be drastic. Given a LOT LOT LOT of time, an organism's evolutionary tree can go on to become many new species, including ones much, much different. This includes an aquatic creature serving as the ancestor to modern great apes (such as humans). Just because something is very complex does not mean it requires a deity.
Interestingly enough, evolution is very imperfect. Humans have bad backs because we are unusual among great apes in that we stand upright, and yet the evolution of our backs is not up to snuff. Giraffes have incredibly long laryngeal nerves that go from their brain, all the way down their neck and then back up again to their larynx, because they evolved to have very long necks but evolution does not have an end goal or work perfectly. The result is an extremely inefficient nerve spanning metres instead of centimetres. Pretty poorly designed there, god.
If your god designed it, why did he do such a bad job?
Also, since you can't prove your god, why do you bother believing in him? Why not another god? Why not no god? Please consider the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for he is so noodly and delicious.???
When did I ever claim this? None of us here did. Why are you saying we did? WHAT?This includes an aquatic creature serving as the ancestor to modern great apes (such as humans). Just because something is very complex does not mean it requires a deity.I understand that the next thing I said did include the big bang theory, but I wasn't pointing my focus towards it, just using one of the atheist examples of how the universe was created. I was saying that evolution is supposed to explain how organisms can become what they are today from the start of the universe, if the universe was not created by an intelligent being. It does terrible at explaining that because that would mean the starting organism would have to be extremely simple, too simple to survive of evolve. I do not say that God must have done it because I cannot comprehend evolution, but because it simply does not add up. Here's a shitty example, but you get the point: If giraffes have long necks so that they can eat from the top of tall trees and plants, how did they survive before evolving into that? That's a bad example because a giraffe probably could survive without its long neck, but what about the many other organisms that inherit essential traits to help them survive in their environment that they simply could not live without? Is it because they started in another environment? If so, that would mean the change would have had to occur within a day, or they would have had to have started developing a long neck before they ever even needed to eat from a tall tree.Giraffes have incredibly long laryngeal nerves that go from their brain, all the way down their neck and then back up again to their larynx, because they evolved to have very long necks but evolution does not have an end goal or work perfectly. The result is an extremely inefficient nerve spanning metres instead of centimetres. Pretty poorly designed there, god.Maybe God doesn't want all animals to be super animals? But why the hell would a tiny change that occurs over millions of years have flaws? It seems like a process that takes so long and works so slowly should be more precise.Also, since you can't prove your god, why do you bother believing in him?Ako, please just take the time to read this. =P
You can't prove evolution. You can't prove the big bang theory. You can give reasons to believe it, just as I can give reasons to believe in God, but you cannot prove it. No theory for how we got here has ever been proven. Why not another god? The other religions don't make sense to me. They offer no explanation for why we live in a world with sin, why their god does not show himself and make himself well known, or a reason why their god hasn't killed us all because of our imperfections. The Bible includes explanation for all of that.
We live on one of millions of planets that just happens to be perfect for supporting life. We only find life where we are, and we only find intelligent lives in ourselves. When we find something that is not immediately explained and appears to have structure and design, like the Stonehenge, we begin to wonder what intelligent life has created it. Now we see our planet, perfect for supporting life, with plants that bear fruit for us and streams that provide water for us. When we look close enough at our own hands, we see millions of cells, each one with DNA more complicated than any written code or language. And now we think it came from an explosion. We know we got here somehow and we have many ideas, but really the only difference between atheism and theism is the difference between thinking we, a species that is complex beyond even our own understanding, (mostly referring to our lack of ability to create intelligence) either came from intelligence or random explosions. There are obviously things that we cannot see, such as our own sentience. We are not simply moving parts, we can actually feel and experience, and we assume the ones around us do too. That cannot be explained by science, and science cannot prove that it must be accompanied by a body, nor that its power or knowledge should be limited. Science therefore cannot disprove God, and although many of us do not believe because we do not see it, even logic cannot defy a God. That is why I choose to believe.
Also, Ako, I found a bug in my Halo plugin... You may not want to install it yet. I'm working on a fix. =)
First of all, make no mistake, evolution is proven. There's an overwhelming amount of evidence for it but you refuse to accept this.
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I understand that the next thing I said did include the big bang theory, but I wasn't pointing my focus towards it, just using one of the atheist examples of how the universe was created.Stop using that word, it doesn't mean what you think it means.
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Maybe God doesn't want all animals to be super animals? But why the hell would a tiny change that occurs over millions of years have flaws? It seems like a process that takes so long and works so slowly should be more precise.Because there isn't an intelligent being guiding the process. We are all born with an appendix, an organ that serves no purpose and can cause problems in a lot of people. It lost its function through evolution, why would god give us a useless organ, huh? We are all still evolving, slowly correcting flaws. That's why the appendix lost its use over the course of time, whatever its function was, another organ took over it and eventually we won't have an appendix. How do you explain this? God took our appendix because he didn't want us to be super humans?
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I was saying that evolution is supposed to explain how organisms can become what they are today from the start of the universe, if the universe was not created by an intelligent being. It does terrible at explaining that because that would mean the starting organism would have to be extremely simple, too simple to survive of evolve.
Why do you keep saying this? No it doesn't, you already proved that your knowledge about evolution is horrible so why do you keep saying this? It is so hypocritical, and the fact that you think the bible makes more sense than the theory of evolution, makes it even more hypocritical, almost to the point of hilarity. There's so much research focusing on the last universal ancestor, a metric niggerload more than a single 1600 page book (the bible) that was written by the fucking complete opposite of a scientist, but you still dare to say Christianity does a better job at explaining all living organisms. And that's just for the last universal ancestor, there's a fuckton more about evolution as a whole.
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You can't prove evolution. You can't prove the big bang theory. You can give reasons to believe it, just as I can give reasons to believe in God, but you cannot prove it. No theory for how we got here has ever been proven. Why not another god? The other religions don't make sense to me. They offer no explanation for why we live in a world with sin, why their god does not show himself and make himself well known, or a reason why their god hasn't killed us all because of our imperfections. The Bible includes explanation for all of that.
I think Muslims and Jews would disagree with you, what do you know about other religions? Have you ever read the Quran? Fuck, have you ever read your own bible cover to cover? Or do you just blindly believe because that's the impression I am getting. You aren't well read in scientific theories like evolution or the big bang (as you already proved to us), yet you feel the right to say the bible explains it better.
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why their god does not show himself and make himself well known, or a reason why their god hasn't killed us all because of our imperfections. The Bible includes explanation for all of that.Oh, I see, the bible explains the same magical bullshit it is about, impressive.
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There are obviously things that we cannot see, such as our own sentience. We are not simply moving parts, we can actually feel and experience, and we assume the ones around us do too. That cannot be explained by science, and science cannot prove that it must be accompanied by a body, nor that its power or knowledge should be limited.What? Have you ever heard of neuroscience?
"and science cannot prove that it must be accompanied by a body, nor that its power or knowledge should be limited." Please, what?! Your brain is responsible for all of that, is your brain not part of the body? Have you ever heard of the fucking limbic system, man? Or is that just more random science bullshit that the bible explains better? I don't think you are remotely aware of most medical research and you just think it isn't explained. I'm done with dis shit, enjoy Jesus.
You are pretty fucking smart, just use the immense amount of knowledge on the internet to learn more about all this shit.
Post by: Freelix2000 on 15 July 2014, 11:16:35 PM
What is this evidence that proves evolution? Fossils, then what? What actually proves that we have evolved from a much smaller organism? One organ in our bodies doesn't explain it. As I've said, I do believe that a creature can evolve, and I have no doubt that humans have changed. I don't believe that Earth is only a few thousand years old, the Bible doesn't say anything to suggest that.(http://www.ripcitybadboys.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/mind-blown-2.gif)QuoteFossils prove evolution.Correct.QuoteThey do not prove that humans and every other species evolved from one small organism from space.???
Correct, we do not have a fossil of a space creature. I have no idea what this has to do with anything.QuoteI never said evolution was invalid. I said your proof is invalid for proving that humans and many other species of Earth evolved from a small organism from space.???
When did I ever claim this? None of us here did. Why are you saying we did? WHAT?QuoteI didn't say evolution is supposed to explain the origins of the universe.WHAT THE HELL? The big bang has fucking nothing to do with evolution, and yet look at what you said:Fossils don't prove shit. They prove that organisms do evolve over time, but not the evolution theory. I believe that a creature can become more advanced and evolve over time, that doesn't mean that humans started with some tiny life form that's presence still isn't explained, then over millions of years magically evolved into a million species. Again, the evolution theory is supposed to explain how a random explosion can create complex life, and it doesn't really explain that unless the starting organism was incredibly simple, to simple to evolve or even survive.
You clearly lack an understanding of both concepts. I'm not trying to be rude by saying this, I'm just trying to point out that you need to increase you knowledge in these areas so you don't make these mistakes.QuoteI said its supposed to explain how a complex organism with organ systems to support its life, organs that function to serve countless purposes for countless species, each one with thousands of cells with their own structure and DNA more complicated than any written code, could occur from the creation of a universe that was not created by an intelligent being. And really, evolution does an extremely shitty job at explaining that.So because it is hard for you to comprehend the sheer scale of evolution, you just revert to "oh god must have done it"? Pretty lame. Often what religious people do though, so not unexpected.
Evolution does an excellent job of explaining how one population can change over time. Given a LOT of time, the changes can be drastic. Given a LOT LOT LOT of time, an organism's evolutionary tree can go on to become many new species, including ones much, much different. This includes an aquatic creature serving as the ancestor to modern great apes (such as humans). Just because something is very complex does not mean it requires a deity.
Interestingly enough, evolution is very imperfect. Humans have bad backs because we are unusual among great apes in that we stand upright, and yet the evolution of our backs is not up to snuff. Giraffes have incredibly long laryngeal nerves that go from their brain, all the way down their neck and then back up again to their larynx, because they evolved to have very long necks but evolution does not have an end goal or work perfectly. The result is an extremely inefficient nerve spanning metres instead of centimetres. Pretty poorly designed there, god.
If your god designed it, why did he do such a bad job?
Also, since you can't prove your god, why do you bother believing in him? Why not another god? Why not no god? Please consider the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for he is so noodly and delicious.???
When did I ever claim this? None of us here did. Why are you saying we did? WHAT?This includes an aquatic creature serving as the ancestor to modern great apes (such as humans). Just because something is very complex does not mean it requires a deity.I understand that the next thing I said did include the big bang theory, but I wasn't pointing my focus towards it, just using one of the atheist examples of how the universe was created. I was saying that evolution is supposed to explain how organisms can become what they are today from the start of the universe, if the universe was not created by an intelligent being. It does terrible at explaining that because that would mean the starting organism would have to be extremely simple, too simple to survive of evolve. I do not say that God must have done it because I cannot comprehend evolution, but because it simply does not add up. Here's a shitty example, but you get the point: If giraffes have long necks so that they can eat from the top of tall trees and plants, how did they survive before evolving into that? That's a bad example because a giraffe probably could survive without its long neck, but what about the many other organisms that inherit essential traits to help them survive in their environment that they simply could not live without? Is it because they started in another environment? If so, that would mean the change would have had to occur within a day, or they would have had to have started developing a long neck before they ever even needed to eat from a tall tree.Giraffes have incredibly long laryngeal nerves that go from their brain, all the way down their neck and then back up again to their larynx, because they evolved to have very long necks but evolution does not have an end goal or work perfectly. The result is an extremely inefficient nerve spanning metres instead of centimetres. Pretty poorly designed there, god.Maybe God doesn't want all animals to be super animals? But why the hell would a tiny change that occurs over millions of years have flaws? It seems like a process that takes so long and works so slowly should be more precise.Also, since you can't prove your god, why do you bother believing in him?Ako, please just take the time to read this. =P
You can't prove evolution. You can't prove the big bang theory. You can give reasons to believe it, just as I can give reasons to believe in God, but you cannot prove it. No theory for how we got here has ever been proven. Why not another god? The other religions don't make sense to me. They offer no explanation for why we live in a world with sin, why their god does not show himself and make himself well known, or a reason why their god hasn't killed us all because of our imperfections. The Bible includes explanation for all of that.
We live on one of millions of planets that just happens to be perfect for supporting life. We only find life where we are, and we only find intelligent lives in ourselves. When we find something that is not immediately explained and appears to have structure and design, like the Stonehenge, we begin to wonder what intelligent life has created it. Now we see our planet, perfect for supporting life, with plants that bear fruit for us and streams that provide water for us. When we look close enough at our own hands, we see millions of cells, each one with DNA more complicated than any written code or language. And now we think it came from an explosion. We know we got here somehow and we have many ideas, but really the only difference between atheism and theism is the difference between thinking we, a species that is complex beyond even our own understanding, (mostly referring to our lack of ability to create intelligence) either came from intelligence or random explosions. There are obviously things that we cannot see, such as our own sentience. We are not simply moving parts, we can actually feel and experience, and we assume the ones around us do too. That cannot be explained by science, and science cannot prove that it must be accompanied by a body, nor that its power or knowledge should be limited. Science therefore cannot disprove God, and although many of us do not believe because we do not see it, even logic cannot defy a God. That is why I choose to believe.
Also, Ako, I found a bug in my Halo plugin... You may not want to install it yet. I'm working on a fix. =)
First of all, make no mistake, evolution is proven. There's an overwhelming amount of evidence for it but you refuse to accept this.QuoteI understand that the next thing I said did include the big bang theory, but I wasn't pointing my focus towards it, just using one of the atheist examples of how the universe was created.Stop using that word, it doesn't mean what you think it means.QuoteMaybe God doesn't want all animals to be super animals? But why the hell would a tiny change that occurs over millions of years have flaws? It seems like a process that takes so long and works so slowly should be more precise.Because there isn't an intelligent being guiding the process. We are all born with an appendix, an organ that serves no purpose and can cause problems in a lot of people. It lost its function through evolution, why would god give us a useless organ, huh? We are all still evolving, slowly correcting flaws. That's why the appendix lost its use over the course of time, whatever its function was, another organ took over it and eventually we won't have an appendix. How do you explain this? God took our appendix because he didn't want us to be super humans?QuoteI was saying that evolution is supposed to explain how organisms can become what they are today from the start of the universe, if the universe was not created by an intelligent being. It does terrible at explaining that because that would mean the starting organism would have to be extremely simple, too simple to survive of evolve.
Why do you keep saying this? No it doesn't, you already proved that your knowledge about evolution is horrible so why do you keep saying this? It is so hypocritical, and the fact that you think the bible makes more sense than the theory of evolution, makes it even more hypocritical, almost to the point of hilarity. There's so much research focusing on the last universal ancestor, a metric niggerload more than a single 1600 page book (the bible) that was written by the fucking complete opposite of a scientist, but you still dare to say Christianity does a better job at explaining all living organisms. And that's just for the last universal ancestor, there's a fuckton more about evolution as a whole.QuoteYou can't prove evolution. You can't prove the big bang theory. You can give reasons to believe it, just as I can give reasons to believe in God, but you cannot prove it. No theory for how we got here has ever been proven. Why not another god? The other religions don't make sense to me. They offer no explanation for why we live in a world with sin, why their god does not show himself and make himself well known, or a reason why their god hasn't killed us all because of our imperfections. The Bible includes explanation for all of that.
I think Muslims and Jews would disagree with you, what do you know about other religions? Have you ever read the Quran? Fuck, have you ever read your own bible cover to cover? Or do you just blindly believe because that's the impression I am getting. You aren't well read in scientific theories like evolution or the big bang (as you already proved to us), yet you feel the right to say the bible explains it better.Quotewhy their god does not show himself and make himself well known, or a reason why their god hasn't killed us all because of our imperfections. The Bible includes explanation for all of that.Oh, I see, the bible explains the same magical bullshit it is about, impressive.QuoteThere are obviously things that we cannot see, such as our own sentience. We are not simply moving parts, we can actually feel and experience, and we assume the ones around us do too. That cannot be explained by science, and science cannot prove that it must be accompanied by a body, nor that its power or knowledge should be limited.What? Have you ever heard of neuroscience?
"and science cannot prove that it must be accompanied by a body, nor that its power or knowledge should be limited." Please, what?! Your brain is responsible for all of that, is your brain not part of the body? Have you ever heard of the fucking limbic system, man? Or is that just more random science bullshit that the bible explains better? I don't think you are remotely aware of most medical research and you just think it isn't explained. I'm done with dis shit, enjoy Jesus.
You are pretty fucking smart, just use the immense amount of knowledge on the internet to learn more about all this shit.
I'm pretty sure I know what the word atheist means. Its an alias for dumbass.
Don't just state that Christianity doesn't explain anything. Explain the flaws in it, and give me a chance to respond. You may as well just say "I am right. You are wrong."
I know enough. I get the basic idea behind all of them, and the one that makes most sense to me besides Christianity is Judaism, but I don't believe that because the book of Isaiah in the Bible actually predicted Jesus as the Messiah, included many poems about it as if it were the past, even though it was written 600 years before. May I ask, have you read the Bible? Have you read even 100 pages of this "metric niggerload" of research you mentioned?
Neurology isn't that advanced, there is still so much about ourselves that we don't understand. Of course our intelligence and thinking is from our brain, but all that explains is why we are advanced organic robots. It doesn't explain how we actually experience what we see, how our thinking is more than just signals in our brain. We are more than just intelligence.
Post by: Airbongo on 15 July 2014, 11:23:16 PM
My jimmies = (http://x3.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Jimmies+Status+-+Not+Rustled+_18e6e03353f6c5e785dbf0289ed94d23.jpg)
Anyone else loves refried beans?
mm yummy yummy
Here is a recipe for refried beans, it is in spanish so get your local orange retailer to translate it for you.
Ingredientes
2 tazas de Frijoles Enteros Cocidos con un poco de Caldo (400 gr)
1/4 de Cebolla (35 gr)
3 cucharadas de Manteca de Cerdo
1/2 cucharadita de Sal
Queso Cotija molido al gusto (opcional)
Totopos al gusto (opcional)
Utensilios
1 Cacerola
1 Tabla para Cortar
1 Aplastador de Frijoles
1 Pala de Cocina
1 Cuchillo
Preparación
Fría la Cebolla
Corte finamente 1/4 cebolla, al finalizar reserve.
Caliente en una cacerola a fuego medio 3 cucharadas de manteca de cerdo.
Ponga en la cacerola la cebolla que picó y fríala por 1 minuto aproximadamente, hasta que se ponga un poco transparente; mueva regularmente.
Fría los Frijoles
Incorpore en la cacerola:
2 tazas de Frijoles Enteros Cocidos con un poco de Caldo.
1/2 cucharadita de Sal.
Aplaste los frijoles con un aplastador de frijoles, hasta que obtenga la consistencia de un puré.
Fría los frijoles por unos 5 minutos, hasta que estén medianamente fritos y espesos; mueva constantemente.
Decore los Frijoles Refritos
Cuando sirva los frijoles refritos puede espolvorear un poco de queso cotija molido sobre ellos.
También puede insertar unos totopos en los frijoles refritos.
¡Que Ricos Frijoles!
Frijoles Refritos con totopos, queso y pan
Tip: Los frijoles refritos los puede congelar , sin ningún problema y así siempre los tendrá disponibles.
Sugerencia: Sí le gustó la consistencia de estos frijoles prepárese para la crema de frijol.
Variación: Otra forma de preparar frijoles – Frijoles Charros.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_R0UsE-hI5lk/TGN6hkFChrI/AAAAAAAADN4/2zMS-_qTUEc/s1600/102_0420.JPG)
Post by: JANUARYJONES on 15 July 2014, 11:24:27 PM
I'm pretty sure I know what the word atheist means. Its an alias for dumbass.
I'm not even atheist (I don't care about why we exist or how) but I'm sick of your fucking dick holster!
Shut it!
This is now a refried beans thread.
(http://h2savecom.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/homemade-refried-beans-hip2save.jpg)
Post by: Airbongo on 15 July 2014, 11:26:25 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/101qbsF.jpg)I'm pretty sure I know what the word atheist means. Its an alias for dumbass.
I'm not even atheist (I don't care about why we exist or how) but I'm sick of your fucking dick holster!
Shut it!
This is now a refried beans thread.
(http://h2savecom.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/homemade-refried-beans-hip2save.jpg)
Post by: Akomine on 15 July 2014, 11:34:56 PM
1 pound dry ziti pasta
1 onion, chopped
1 pound lean ground beef
2 (26 ounce) jars spaghetti sauce
6 ounces provolone cheese, sliced
1 1/2 cups sour cream
6 ounces mozzarella cheese, shredded
2 tablespoons grated Parmesan cheese
1.
Bring a large pot of lightly salted water to a boil. Add ziti pasta, and cook until al dente, about 8 minutes; drain.
2.
In a large skillet, brown onion and ground beef over medium heat. Add spaghetti sauce, and simmer 15 minutes.
3.
Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Butter a 9x13 inch baking dish. Layer as follows: 1/2 of the ziti, Provolone cheese, sour cream, 1/2 sauce mixture, remaining ziti, mozzarella cheese and remaining sauce mixture. Top with grated Parmesan cheese.
4.
Bake for 30 minutes in the preheated oven, or until cheeses are melted.
(http://www.adventuresonabike.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/horsepoop.jpg)
Post by: Airbongo on 15 July 2014, 11:36:30 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/nAk3ZPt.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/3l5M1np.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/IKvvKF9.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/RAM1wAx.png)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t1.0-9/579525_376067125769737_660986243_n.jpg)
Post by: Akomine on 15 July 2014, 11:44:28 PM
Post by: Airbongo on 15 July 2014, 11:51:02 PM
Air, ur mom's beans are shit.Um wow? No they aren't, faggot. I bet your mom's poutine is utter shit, though.
Post by: JANUARYJONES on 15 July 2014, 11:54:30 PM
who will win
#teamseanbean
Post by: Airbongo on 15 July 2014, 11:56:32 PM
poutine vs refried beans#teamfrijol
who will win
#teamseanbean
Post by: Akomine on 16 July 2014, 12:48:33 AM
Post by: ChaosMushrooms on 16 July 2014, 01:48:46 AM
Post by: SirLogiC on 16 July 2014, 02:48:20 AM
Post by: boylink on 16 July 2014, 02:35:50 PM
Post by: Airbongo on 16 July 2014, 02:38:30 PM
Air why the fuck did you put post your recipe in spanish? I want to make some beans too.I clearly stated that you should talk to your local orange vendor to get it translated.
Post by: boylink on 16 July 2014, 04:30:30 PM
Sorry I didn't read the entire thing because I saw spanish. Would a banana vendor be okay?Air why the fuck did you put post your recipe in spanish? I want to make some beans too.I clearly stated that you should talk to your local orange vendor to get it translated.
Post by: Freelix2000 on 16 July 2014, 04:33:00 PM
Post by: Akomine on 16 July 2014, 07:11:34 PM
Guys, I'm sorry I've been so hostile. I guess I got a bit too pissed when I saw all the hateful replies towards Christianity that followed this thread. I'm done reflecting that hate now, but please, have a little respect for my religion and try to keep the hate to yourself a little. If you would like to continue this debate, I am willing to do that in a more friendly manner now. =)
I assure you my hate is not towards you. I refuse to respect your religion, I only respect your right to hold any idea/belief/thought/association that you please. Furthermore, I will protect your right to speak freely on the VC network (with the exception of harassment or bullying). Respect must be earned, not demanded.
I'm happy to continue the debate. I'm also happy to provide you with proper academic sources that prove the science we talk about. But please do not put words in my/our mouth. I'd also like to take a moment to explain to you what atheism is and what it isn't, since you seem to be a bit confused, if you're interested.
I'm even more happy to announce that air's mom has
Post by: Freelix2000 on 16 July 2014, 07:31:24 PM
That's great! Can I haz some refried beans?Guys, I'm sorry I've been so hostile. I guess I got a bit too pissed when I saw all the hateful replies towards Christianity that followed this thread. I'm done reflecting that hate now, but please, have a little respect for my religion and try to keep the hate to yourself a little. If you would like to continue this debate, I am willing to do that in a more friendly manner now. =)
I assure you my hate is not towards you. I refuse to respect your religion, I only respect your right to hold any idea/belief/thought/association that you please. Furthermore, I will protect your right to speak freely on the VC network (with the exception of harassment or bullying). Respect must be earned, not demanded.
I'm happy to continue the debate. I'm also happy to provide you with proper academic sources that prove the science we talk about. But please do not put words in my/our mouth. I'd also like to take a moment to explain to you what atheism is and what it isn't, since you seem to be a bit confused, if you're interested.
I'm even more happy to announce that air's mom hasbeen kidnapped and forcedoffered to join my dungeon as cook. She will be serving refried beans made of the feces of the otherslaveswilling dungeon volunteers.
Post by: Freelix2000 on 16 July 2014, 07:35:16 PM
And also, when I ask for respect for my religion, that was really directed more towards Airbo and all the shit I see here from him, and even though I have not proved that my God is alive, and again I cannot prove he is, I believe that I have proved that it is more than just a belief in random magic, and for that it does at least deserve to not be insulted and mocked all over VC forums for no apparent reason.Guys, I'm sorry I've been so hostile. I guess I got a bit too pissed when I saw all the hateful replies towards Christianity that followed this thread. I'm done reflecting that hate now, but please, have a little respect for my religion and try to keep the hate to yourself a little. If you would like to continue this debate, I am willing to do that in a more friendly manner now. =)
I assure you my hate is not towards you. I refuse to respect your religion, I only respect your right to hold any idea/belief/thought/association that you please. Furthermore, I will protect your right to speak freely on the VC network (with the exception of harassment or bullying). Respect must be earned, not demanded.
I'm happy to continue the debate. I'm also happy to provide you with proper academic sources that prove the science we talk about. But please do not put words in my/our mouth. I'd also like to take a moment to explain to you what atheism is and what it isn't, since you seem to be a bit confused, if you're interested.
I'm even more happy to announce that air's mom hasbeen kidnapped and forcedoffered to join my dungeon as cook. She will be serving refried beans made of the feces of the otherslaveswilling dungeon volunteers.
Post by: Dave on 16 July 2014, 07:38:15 PM
Post by: Airbongo on 16 July 2014, 08:26:20 PM
I never mocked you, though. I have mocked religion on the forums for 3 years :PAnd also, when I ask for respect for my religion, that was really directed more towards Airbo and all the shit I see here from him, and even though I have not proved that my God is alive, and again I cannot prove he is, I believe that I have proved that it is more than just a belief in random magic, and for that it does at least deserve to not be insulted and mocked all over VC forums for no apparent reason.Guys, I'm sorry I've been so hostile. I guess I got a bit too pissed when I saw all the hateful replies towards Christianity that followed this thread. I'm done reflecting that hate now, but please, have a little respect for my religion and try to keep the hate to yourself a little. If you would like to continue this debate, I am willing to do that in a more friendly manner now. =)
I assure you my hate is not towards you. I refuse to respect your religion, I only respect your right to hold any idea/belief/thought/association that you please. Furthermore, I will protect your right to speak freely on the VC network (with the exception of harassment or bullying). Respect must be earned, not demanded.
I'm happy to continue the debate. I'm also happy to provide you with proper academic sources that prove the science we talk about. But please do not put words in my/our mouth. I'd also like to take a moment to explain to you what atheism is and what it isn't, since you seem to be a bit confused, if you're interested.
I'm even more happy to announce that air's mom hasbeen kidnapped and forcedoffered to join my dungeon as cook. She will be serving refried beans made of the feces of the otherslaveswilling dungeon volunteers.
Post by: Akomine on 16 July 2014, 10:27:07 PM
And also, when I ask for respect for my religion, that was really directed more towards Airbo and all the shit I see here from him, and even though I have not proved that my God is alive, and again I cannot prove he is, I believe that I have proved that it is more than just a belief in random magic, and for that it does at least deserve to not be insulted and mocked all over VC forums for no apparent reason.
Except for rare unique circumstances, not he nor you nor anyone else will be censored, sorry.
Post by: Freelix2000 on 16 July 2014, 10:45:36 PM
I'm not exactly asking for a new rule or actual staff-enforced censorship, that would be dumb because this is VC, a magical place where anyone can say whatever the hell they want. =P I'm just trying to prove the point that theism, or more specifically Christianity, is not the belief random magic and I'm hoping for the community to decide for themselves to keep the mocking and hate to themselves a bit.And also, when I ask for respect for my religion, that was really directed more towards Airbo and all the shit I see here from him, and even though I have not proved that my God is alive, and again I cannot prove he is, I believe that I have proved that it is more than just a belief in random magic, and for that it does at least deserve to not be insulted and mocked all over VC forums for no apparent reason.
Except for rare unique circumstances, not he nor you nor anyone else will be censored, sorry.
Post by: Airbongo on 16 July 2014, 11:16:56 PM
but it is :(I'm not exactly asking for a new rule or actual staff-enforced censorship, that would be dumb because this is VC, a magical place where anyone can say whatever the hell they want. =P I'm just trying to prove the point that theism, or more specifically Christianity, is not the belief random magic and I'm hoping for the community to decide for themselves to keep the mocking and hate to themselves a bit.And also, when I ask for respect for my religion, that was really directed more towards Airbo and all the shit I see here from him, and even though I have not proved that my God is alive, and again I cannot prove he is, I believe that I have proved that it is more than just a belief in random magic, and for that it does at least deserve to not be insulted and mocked all over VC forums for no apparent reason.
Except for rare unique circumstances, not he nor you nor anyone else will be censored, sorry.
Post by: ChaosMushrooms on 17 July 2014, 01:30:50 AM
Post by: JANUARYJONES on 17 July 2014, 03:13:40 AM
Luis walks into a bar. Bartender says: "why the long face?", Luis says: " I bought a Mac and now I cant play any video games".
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/6795b9853823da479b179eb7659507b0/tumblr_mzw7k2s0Ku1sz506ao1_400.gif)
Post by: Airbongo on 17 July 2014, 03:54:12 AM
Luis walks into a bar. Bartender says: "why the long face?", Luis says: " I bought a Mac and now I cant play any video games".(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/otcg.gif)
Post by: Akomine on 25 July 2014, 12:20:41 AM
And also, when I ask for respect for my religion, that was really directed more towards Airbo and all the shit I see here from him, and even though I have not proved that my God is alive, and again I cannot prove he is, I believe that I have proved that it is more than just a belief in random magic, and for that it does at least deserve to not be insulted and mocked all over VC forums for no apparent reason.
You have not and cannot prove your god exists, I agree. Until you do, it does just seem that you believe in "random magic" (your term).
So here's my questions:
1. If your god is real, why can't you prove he exists (shouldn't there be overwhelming proof by now)?
2. You are at odds with scientists, who have spent lifetimes researching and compiling evidence regarding evolution; do you think there is a vast conspiracy where they are all lying to us?
Post by: SirLogiC on 25 July 2014, 01:11:32 AM
Uhh, so Freelix welcomes some more civil debate, so I'll keep the can of worms open.And also, when I ask for respect for my religion, that was really directed more towards Airbo and all the shit I see here from him, and even though I have not proved that my God is alive, and again I cannot prove he is, I believe that I have proved that it is more than just a belief in random magic, and for that it does at least deserve to not be insulted and mocked all over VC forums for no apparent reason.
You have not and cannot prove your god exists, I agree. Until you do, it does just seem that you believe in "random magic" (your term).
So here's my questions:
1. If your god is real, why can't you prove he exists (shouldn't there be overwhelming proof by now)?
2. You are at odds with scientists, who have spent lifetimes researching and compiling evidence regarding evolution; do you think there is a vast conspiracy where they are all lying to us?
I was under the impression you cannot prove that God exists. He is perfect, so he made the world flawlessly. There exists no proof he exists because that's what he wanted. The whole point being that you can only have faith he exists. Trying to prove God exists brings to mind the Tower of Babel story and something about proving God exists being blasphemy because it shows God isn't perfect.
Post by: Akomine on 25 July 2014, 02:42:25 AM
Uhh, so Freelix welcomes some more civil debate, so I'll keep the can of worms open.And also, when I ask for respect for my religion, that was really directed more towards Airbo and all the shit I see here from him, and even though I have not proved that my God is alive, and again I cannot prove he is, I believe that I have proved that it is more than just a belief in random magic, and for that it does at least deserve to not be insulted and mocked all over VC forums for no apparent reason.
You have not and cannot prove your god exists, I agree. Until you do, it does just seem that you believe in "random magic" (your term).
So here's my questions:
1. If your god is real, why can't you prove he exists (shouldn't there be overwhelming proof by now)?
2. You are at odds with scientists, who have spent lifetimes researching and compiling evidence regarding evolution; do you think there is a vast conspiracy where they are all lying to us?
I was under the impression you cannot prove that God exists. He is perfect, so he made the world flawlessly. There exists no proof he exists because that's what he wanted. The whole point being that you can only have faith he exists. Trying to prove God exists brings to mind the Tower of Babel story and something about proving God exists being blasphemy because it shows God isn't perfect.
Some people might think this way, yeah, it's a logical fallacy though. It also has a series of logic flaws that I won't even get into (flawless world, eh?)
Concepts people need to grasp, and then take a good look at their own positions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presupposition
Faith is the suspension of critical thinking - belief without evidence. Faith is stupid.
Post by: TheCatsMangler on 25 July 2014, 05:02:15 AM
I heard somewhere about this rumor of God being dead.
I am in the middle of this war because my mother is Christian, same with my Grandmother, but my father isn't.
I don't know what really to believe, Ako does have a point. And if God was all powerful, why did he make such aggressive creatures? Like humans. Mostly power hungry. You have heard of Adam and Eve, they wanted power so they took the apple as suggested. Only because it held "Gods power".
If God is pure good, and the creator of all. Doesn't that cancel itself out? Because he also made evil and evil people?
Christian logic is that God makes everyone, but they are granted free will. So for instance, he made Hitler, and Hitler obviously had some sort of autism and that sort of thing. Which God made him have, thus making him start WW2?
I am interested in this topic. But I'm starting to side with atheists because, yeah he may of done all of this great stuff. But where is he now? The only proof we have is a book. Which could of just been made to read toddlers to sleep every night and then some crazy guy started taking it seriously.
Post by: ChaosMushrooms on 25 July 2014, 06:37:55 AM
Post by: Akomine on 25 July 2014, 06:04:21 PM
I'd like to say, you shouldn't take what air says seriously. He isn't really a faggot. It's just you look like a faggot when you take what he says to heart.If air isn't a faggot, why does he keep asking to suck my dick?
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I heard somewhere about this rumor of God being dead.Since you're interested in this topic, it will be worth your while to look into each side as much as you can. Gain a decent understanding so you can make informed, educated decisions. It will be good for your brain and your wellbeing. (My biased tip: many religious people would prefer you NOT look into each side in depth, but rather just take what they say on "faith". This is unhealthy and dangerous - critical thinking is one of the best things about being a human being, so let's not suppress it.)
I am in the middle of this war because my mother is Christian, same with my Grandmother, but my father isn't.
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I don't know what really to believe, Ako does have a point. And if God was all powerful, why did he make such aggressive creatures? Like humans. Mostly power hungry. You have heard of Adam and Eve, they wanted power so they took the apple as suggested. Only because it held "Gods power".The Adam and Eve story is quite bizarre. First of all, it is false; humans have been around for 1-2 million years, not a few thousand. Second of all, all of humanity does not descend from two individuals (evolution proves otherwise. Yes, Freelix, proves.).
Third, Adam and Eve are suddenly created and soon after meet two entities. One of them (God) tells them not to eat the fruit, the other (talking snake) says "ahh, don't listen to him, it's all good, go ahead". Not knowing what deception is (or much else for that matter, with no life experiences), Eve eats it and God decides to punish the entire human race forever because of it. We are now "fallen" and have to live in a world with evil and suffering... because God is a sociopathic asshole because someone ate a fruit.
This story is clearly false. Even if it is true, then why worship the vindictive evil douchebag (the christian God) responsible for all of the horrible things in the world? Especially when he could have kept it as a "perfect" world.
Oh and another thing: if god made everything, then god made the snake, thus god set up Adam and Eve for failure, thus god wanted the world to have evil and suffering.
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If God is pure good, and the creator of all. Doesn't that cancel itself out? Because he also made evil and evil people?Good point.
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Christian logic is that God makes everyone, but they are granted free will. So for instance, he made Hitler, and Hitler obviously had some sort of autism and that sort of thing. Which God made him have, thus making him start WW2?Many religious people claim that their god has a plan for everything. This seems to directly contradict free will. If everything is planned by their god, then their god is a pretty sick, disgusting, scary fucker.
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I am interested in this topic. But I'm starting to side with atheists because, yeah he may of done all of this great stuff. But where is he now? The only proof we have is a book. Which could of just been made to read toddlers to sleep every night and then some crazy guy started taking it seriously.Careful, all atheists are evil.
And to be clear: the bible is not proof of anything. It was written by several humans over several centuries. It contains plagiarism, editing, randomly inserted lines, a massive list of contradictions, and there are several different translations and different canons of different lengths. It's a complete clusterfuck. It's a work of humans. If the christian god wrote it or had people write it, it is probably one of the absolute worst ways to prove his existence. Why did he do such a bad job at communicating with us if he is PERFECT?
Keep thinking, catty; your brain is the best thing you've got. Unless you have a really nice ass or something, in which case it might be the best thing you've got.
Post by: Airbongo on 25 July 2014, 07:55:40 PM
Post by: TheCatsMangler on 26 July 2014, 06:17:06 AM
This could be exploited. That and you could temporarily get brainwashed or whatever, and then sin about a thousand times. Get your memories back. Say sorry then you will be fine.
And what about the as long as you apologize for your sins thing, could you murder half a country. And then say sorry afterwards. And get a free ticket to heaven?
This all goes a lot deeper. But I would like to see it from a christian point of view. And a atheist's one.
Post by: Akomine on 26 July 2014, 01:08:05 PM
Here's something I was thinking about a moment ago, Christians (and most probably the bible), say that you won't go to hell if you do something bad and don't know God or Jesus exists.There's an old joke about this, where a priest comes to the new world to tell the native Inuit people about Jesus:
Inuit: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?'
Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.'
Inuit: 'Then why did you tell me?'
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This could be exploited. That and you could temporarily get brainwashed or whatever, and then sin about a thousand times. Get your memories back. Say sorry then you will be fine.
And what about the as long as you apologize for your sins thing, could you murder half a country. And then say sorry afterwards. And get a free ticket to heaven?
This all goes a lot deeper. But I would like to see it from a christian point of view. And a atheist's one.
Correct, in the Christian religion you can commit genocide, mass murder, rape, whatever, and still go to heaven as long as you accept Jesus as your lord and saviour (aka: you must believe in God). You mentioned Adolf Hitler, who yes, would quite possibly be in heaven due to this immoral rule.
When people claim that religion is a source of morals, they have no idea what they're talking about. Morals are derived by humans by secular means. Secular morals have made the modern world a much better place to live than when the world was completely ruled by religion.
Consider the status of homosexuals or women. Religion considers them 'lesser' and 'unclean', and commands a series of horrible things that need to happen to them. Homosexuals are to be put to death, for example. Hatred of gay people is directly derived from religion.
Luckily, secular morality has been creeping into our world more and more. Even many non-fundamentalist religious people nowadays will be fine with gay people. Some churches even accept them as members. It's something I don't understand though; if you can disregard one immoral rule in your bible, why not just ditch the whole immoral thing?
I'm an agnostic atheist, catty, so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to explain my view.
Post by: SirLogiC on 26 July 2014, 01:39:44 PM
Here's something I was thinking about a moment ago, Christians (and most probably the bible), say that you won't go to hell if you do something bad and don't know God or Jesus exists.There's an old joke about this, where a priest comes to the new world to tell the native Inuit people about Jesus:
Inuit: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?'
Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.'
Inuit: 'Then why did you tell me?'QuoteThis could be exploited. That and you could temporarily get brainwashed or whatever, and then sin about a thousand times. Get your memories back. Say sorry then you will be fine.
And what about the as long as you apologize for your sins thing, could you murder half a country. And then say sorry afterwards. And get a free ticket to heaven?
This all goes a lot deeper. But I would like to see it from a christian point of view. And a atheist's one.
Correct, in the Christian religion you can commit genocide, mass murder, rape, whatever, and still go to heaven as long as you accept Jesus as your lord and saviour (aka: you must believe in God). You mentioned Adolf Hitler, who yes, would quite possibly be in heaven due to this immoral rule.
When people claim that religion is a source of morals, they have no idea what they're talking about. Morals are derived by humans by secular means. Secular morals have made the modern world a much better place to live than when the world was completely ruled by religion.
Consider the status of homosexuals or women. Religion considers them 'lesser' and 'unclean', and commands a series of horrible things that need to happen to them. Homosexuals are to be put to death, for example. Hatred of gay people is directly derived from religion.
Luckily, secular morality has been creeping into our world more and more. Even many non-fundamentalist religious people nowadays will be fine with gay people. Some churches even accept them as members. It's something I don't understand though; if you can disregard one immoral rule in your bible, why not just ditch the whole immoral thing?
I'm an agnostic atheist, catty, so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to explain my view.
Hitler would be in Hell, suicide is a mortal sin. Well at least it is in Catholicism. Also you can't just ask for forgiveness and get it, you have to actually mean it. Like if you murder, ask for forgiveness then murder again, well that doesn't really count.
Of course you know I don't care for Christianity much but you seem to be showing some misinformation too.
Yeah I don't care much for any religion. I have my own beliefs and and confident and happy with them. What I have a problem with is dogma that separates people, people that preach hate and use religion as an excuse, people that choose to hate others for silly reasons. Religion bashing is just as bad as religious haters.
"If you want the world to be a better place, be a better person."- me
Post by: Akomine on 26 July 2014, 02:18:48 PM
Hitler would be in Hell, suicide is a mortal sin. Well at least it is in Catholicism. Also you can't just ask for forgiveness and get it, you have to actually mean it. Like if you murder, ask for forgiveness then murder again, well that doesn't really count.
Of course you know I don't care for Christianity much but you seem to be showing some misinformation too.
Yeah I don't care much for any religion. I have my own beliefs and and confident and happy with them. What I have a problem with is dogma that separates people, people that preach hate and use religion as an excuse, people that choose to hate others for silly reasons. Religion bashing is just as bad as religious haters.
"If you want the world to be a better place, be a better person."- me
Haha forgot about the suicide is a sin thing, good correction. And, yes, I realize repentance is supposed to be sincere. At least I've heard that before, but I'd like to see where it is mentioned in the bible.
I disagree with you when you say "Religion bashing is just as bad as religious haters". Sorry, I'm not the one instilling the fear of eternal torture into non-believers, terrorizing gay people, or raping little kids and protecting the rapists from justice. I will continue to bash vile religious bullshit until there is nothing left to bash. It is risible, and I see no reason why it should get a free pass on criticism.
Where did I spread misinformation? I didn't mean to.
PS: lol @ the suicide being a capital sin thing. Oh THAT is the only thing stopping him from going to heaven. Not the senseless mass murder or anything. Immoral bullshit. A source of such evil, and yet people get their jimmies all rustled when someone decides to speak up against it. I'm even "as bad" as religious bigots for doing it some how. Ahhhh, fuck religion.