This is a bit of an unnecessarily toxic thread. Octo's been on staff for like 8 years as mod, SM and admin. Can he not take it easy a bit?
Maybe the staff member who gave you those staff chat logs can chime in. They clearly have something on their mind.
As air said I would love to hear from the staff who supplied those logs as well. I can only assume I am part of his "cronies" considering I am almost always referred to as part of octo's "gang". Being staff on vc is not a job or something you are required to log so many hours a month on, it is solely volunteer based. Many of us if not all, Have a job, go to school, have families, and just in general have an outside life that is far more important. We have a lot of active staff right now so octo and others taking a break will not hurt vc and wont effect you as a player. I think this post is unwarranted and seems targeted out of hate towards octo. I say this because we have had a lot of other inactive staff who go several months inactive and not a single word is heard from the player base about them being removed.
To be clear, I was not directly provided those logs by a staff member. They were floating around so to speak.You posted admin only logs, not even just staff logs. I would like to know how they were floating around because this is kinda concerning. Where are our cclogger logs just floating around?
He's been on like 4 times in the last 2 months, and hasn't helped anyone.In the past 4 months since that vote, he's clocked just under 82 hours of play time on the server, joining it on 52 unique days. (I realised after typing this that you said 2 months, sorry)
Octo doesn't even know how to make a region larger without deleting and remaking it.For non-rectangular regions, this is correct. The entire region has to be re-defined from scratch, which is a tedious process that very few people enjoy. I don't know the specifics of what you're referring to here, but if this is the case here, then that is the reason why.
if you see this as a problem and think octo and his "cronies" are useless why don't you just apply your butthurt ass for staff. what's the point of worrying about staff that doesn't come on if it doesn't affect you at all? I don't see why you had to write all that out only to say octo is inactive and should be removed. There are plenty other staff members on vc that don't get on anymore but still have the staff title. get over it. you say octo is a chill guy yet wrote an essay with quotes for evidence calling him an incompetent asshole lmao, make up your mind.
I think this thread is a pretty big overreaction to what I think boils down to "Octo has been a bit of a dick to players recently". I'm definitely open to having a discussion about this and hearing all sides, but this snaky ass way you're going about it is pretty nasty.QuoteTo be clear, I was not directly provided those logs by a staff member. They were floating around so to speak.You posted admin only logs, not even just staff logs. I would like to know how they were floating around because this is kinda concerning. Where are our cclogger logs just floating around?
Octo is still staff because he's good at what he does, and he's been a part of this server for longer than most. In that time he's helped many people, and been an important part of our team. He was subject to a staff vote when he returned from his short absence 4 months ago, which had exactly zero people opposing him returning to staff, and a supermajority in favour of re-joining the team as a Super Moderator.He's been on like 4 times in the last 2 months, and hasn't helped anyone.In the past 4 months since that vote, he's clocked just under 82 hours of play time on the server, joining it on 52 unique days. (I realised after typing this that you said 2 months, sorry)Octo doesn't even know how to make a region larger without deleting and remaking it.For non-rectangular regions, this is correct. The entire region has to be re-defined from scratch, which is a tedious process that very few people enjoy. I don't know the specifics of what you're referring to here, but if this is the case here, then that is the reason why.
Staff are players on the server too, everyone is entitled to play on the server however they like. Just because they are staff does not forbid them from certain tasks or activities. If Octo enjoys farming, he is allowed to do so. You say it can cause lag, although WorldEdit can also cause significant lag, yet I've never heard anyone complain about staff building with it.
Additionally, Octo knows not to distribute private server files. Considering your post contains logs only a limited number of people have access to, it appears at least one member of staff doesn't think that applies to them.
Staff are removed due to inactivity, or, by rare exception, by tribunal. Personally I don't foresee either of these happening any time soon with Octo.
He's been on like 4 times in the last 2 months, and hasn't helped anyone.In the past 4 months since that vote, he's clocked just under 82 hours of play time on the server, joining it on 52 unique days. (I realised after typing this that you said 2 months, sorry)
Octo is still staff because he's good at what he does, and he's been a part of this server for longer than most. In that time he's helped many people, and been an important part of our team. He was subject to a staff vote when he returned from his short absence 4 months ago, which had exactly zero people opposing him returning to staff, and a supermajority in favour of re-joining the team as a Super Moderator.He's been on like 4 times in the last 2 months, and hasn't helped anyone.In the past 4 months since that vote, he's clocked just under 82 hours of play time on the server, joining it on 52 unique days. (I realised after typing this that you said 2 months, sorry)Octo doesn't even know how to make a region larger without deleting and remaking it.For non-rectangular regions, this is correct. The entire region has to be re-defined from scratch, which is a tedious process that very few people enjoy. I don't know the specifics of what you're referring to here, but if this is the case here, then that is the reason why.
Staff are players on the server too, everyone is entitled to play on the server however they like. Just because they are staff does not forbid them from certain tasks or activities. If Octo enjoys farming, he is allowed to do so. You say it can cause lag, although WorldEdit can also cause significant lag, yet I've never heard anyone complain about staff building with it.
Additionally, Octo knows not to distribute private server files. Considering your post contains logs only a limited number of people have access to, it appears at least one member of staff doesn't think that applies to them.
Staff are removed due to inactivity, or, by rare exception, by tribunal. Personally I don't foresee either of these happening any time soon with Octo.
He's been on like 4 times in the last 2 months, and hasn't helped anyone.In the past 4 months since that vote, he's clocked just under 82 hours of play time on the server, joining it on 52 unique days. (I realised after typing this that you said 2 months, sorry)
Octo doesn't even know how to make a region larger without deleting and remaking it.For non-rectangular regions, this is correct. The entire region has to be re-defined from scratch, which is a tedious process that very few people enjoy. I don't know the specifics of what you're referring to here, but if this is the case here, then that is the reason why.
Staff are players on the server too, everyone is entitled to play on the server however they like. Just because they are staff does not forbid them from certain tasks or activities. If Octo enjoys farming, he is allowed to do so. You say it can cause lag, although WorldEdit can also cause significant lag, yet I've never heard anyone complain about staff building with it.
I don't really think your opinion of me "not wanting to help players" Is true at all, Gerrit. Especially being based off one instance where I offered to protect someone's region and they said No they would wait for someone else, who ended up doing exactly what I was going to do in the end. Redrawing and redefining, I just used the words "delete and remake" or whatever - Same thing. Also, It's kind of hard to take an "intentionally toxic thread" seriously when the majority of what you post is Toxic. Please give me some more instances of when I purposely have avoided helping players, Gerrit.
Actually, re reading your posts, I see a lot of contradictions in what you've said. You say this in your first post; "Octo and his cronies have literally done nothing helpful for anyone in years. Why are they still staff?" By the way, only one of my "Cronies" is staff. and then your second one you say this; "Octo has been staff for a long time, and he's done a lot of stuff for a lot of people over those years which was very kind of him and I think that everyone on here appreciates the time he's spent helping people out." Which one is it bud? do I help people or not. You implying that I only care about myself and my ego is pretty farfetched too, considering you only know me from one corner of the internet. Actually, Gerrit, a lot of people on VC would argue that I don't only care for myself, because they've taken the time to get to know me personally, and they know more about my personal life then i've shared with others on VC, infact, I've shared almost none of personal life with you because since the day you joined VC (yea, I remember it) I've thought you were a toxic kid whos just out to rile people up, which by the way, some of the staff think this post was just an attempt to rile me up out of hatred. Which it probably is despite you saying otherwise. I don't think someone who claims they don't really care either way would waste a second of their day on this if they didnt. I probably make more sacrifices for other peoples happiness than you realize, but those details are for the few people i've shared them with who know about my life. and know the sacrifices i make for people in my life, things i've hurt myself over and gotten angry over day after day - just to make someone else comfortable mind you. I also find it very funny when you say the majority of VC has a "negative view" on me and then you say I have an ego. I probably think more negatively about myself then the people who you are saying think that way about me do. So no, I don't believe I have an inflated ego. I don't believe anyone with self-esteem issues and who has self harmed has can possibly have an "inflated ego" I believe you just think I have an ego because I'm very blunt and will tell it how it is and I don't really care to filter myself. Also I'm having a hard time not laughing at these posts as I read them knowing they were intended to be "hugely toxic" It's hard to think you made these posts for any reason out of spite for me, Gerrit. which is fine you're entitled to all your opinions here, despite how unpopular they might be in the end.
On the shaz note - Yes the mute may have been uncalled for, but I still stand by it considering I've seen numerous staff members hand out mutes for that exact reason before back in the day before I was staff, and There was extensive talk about shaz before he was banned, and before he was unbanned - which you know absolutely 0 details about because you were not apart of those discussions. So don't try to use that against me when its already been taken care of by the entirety of staff, which again, were mostly in agreement on the ban at first, and then if I recall most of us were for unbanning/reduced punishment afterwards.
There's a lot of backend and background stuff to staff you don't see Gerrit. This entire thread is hugely untasteful and I personally don't believe you have a single clue how staff is ran, what could be considered "basic" and what is "advanced" considering you've never been staff - Also, on a side note - No "admins" or "system people" in the real world ever remember stuff, we have google for that reason, That's coming from 2 professors I've had from System admin classes, both Linux and Windows. On VC we have staff supplementary info, which again, you wouldn't know about because you aren't staff. and None of the staff have EVER been expected to remember how to do things.
I think you typed out giant walls of text for your replies to air and shen because you realized you done fucked up with this toxic post, Gerrit, I know I can be a toxic person sometimes - but right now you certainly are not one to talk, and to be honest, I don't think you ever have been.
2 last things -
The staff member who DID leak these logs should chime up, because someone did at some point, or else you wouldn't have access to them, Gerrit, its simple as that.
and finally, please don't come to me asking about my personal life, if I've shared details with you - you know who you are, and you know who and how i am, and I believe those of you will agree with me when I say I dont think i only care about myself.
"To be clear, I was not directly provided those logs by a staff member. They were floating around so to speak." also Gerrit this is pretty vauge, do you mind elaborating? for the entirety of us apart of the VC staff team
I would like to thank Octo for taking the time out of his busy day to expand a region for me! Very helpful!!
"You conspired with Shen to lock this thread without consulting any other staff" Not even close. You do understand we have a staff discord chat right?
I suppose the simplest answer to the question of “why is Octo staff?” is that the people who make that decision want him to be.
Also, this thread is in the wrong place. Should be under Reports and Grievances, since it’s a bitch thread.
I honestly don't care if players on this server dislike me. I can sleep perfectly fine at night knowing that someone on a Minecraft server dislikes what I say or who I am even though they know nothing about me. I will be reforming nothing and I wont be getting removed anytime soon so suck it up. Comparing vc to a homeless shelter is kinda funny ngl but I see your point. Though id like you to point out instances where I have refused to help people? As far as I can tell people don't like me because I really like to use my freedom of speech to express myself by saying bad words. Anyone who dislikes me because of how I speak needs to grow a pair and stop being such a snowflake, how will you ever survive in the real world if you piss yourself over someone saying something bad. Feel free to reply but you wont be changing my mind and definitely wont change how I act :)
Why do you think me and octo conspire and plan everything we do? We are friends irl yes, but we don't talk about everything together and certainly don't conspire together. I actually didn't talk to octo about any of the shaz incident until after the final decision was made. I will admit I closed the appeal too early but that was my personal decision in which I retracted when I reversed the decision. And again, I do not and will never care about how people on this server view me. You're entitled to your own opinion about me and that's your right. Keep pointing out my flaws but again I wont be getting removed from staff :-*
"You conspired with Shen to lock this thread without consulting any other staff" Not even close. You do understand we have a staff discord chat right?
From what I understand that is exactly what happened. Maybe you could post some screenshots of the discussion to lock that thread in the staff chat to prove me wrong?
Ask literally any staff member. They will agree that we had a discussion in the staff chat. I will not be supplying screenshots unless you admit who you got the admin logs from how about that ;) Me and @Akomine had a long discussion about the appeal so if you really want confirmation that it was discussed why don't you ask the owner :-*
We had a pretty long discussion about it on January 28 in the staff discord. Ask the person providing you with your lil admin logs to check it I guess.Ask literally any staff member. They will agree that we had a discussion in the staff chat. I will not be supplying screenshots unless you admit who you got the admin logs from how about that ;) Me and @Akomine had a long discussion about the appeal so if you really want confirmation that it was discussed why don't you ask the owner :-*
Seems like the difference between those two things is that I have evidence to back up my claims, and you do not. I think that those screenshots are vital to this discussion, and would be very appreciative if you or anyone else who has access to them would post them here.
But they also voted not to bring him back as an administrator because he wasn't doing his job. Why else would he not get that position again?This is not correct. He was not brought back as SM because he was not doing his job at A. He was brought back as SM because he'd been gone for 6 months, and giving anyone unrestricted access to anything after 6 months of absence is dangerous. In the discussions surrounding the vote the point wasn't "he's not doing his job", it was "can we still trust him after 6 months". That's why he did not get his position as admin.
Yep, I know that they need to be redefined, but Octo thought that the entire region needs to be deleted and remade, the logs for that incident are below. For context, Naomi asks Octo if he can redefine a region, Octo does not know how to do this, and tells her that he will delete and remake the region, hence him asking to to screenshot the member list. This very clearly shows that Octo doesn't even know basic staff commands, probably because he does so little that he either forgot them, or didn't know them in the first place.With that last sentence, are you seriously trying to suggest Octo has never known how to protect something? He has protected hundreds of regions over the years, he definitely knows the commands. In that once specific instance, it was a poly region, which are not something we deal with very often, and are a huge nightmare whenever it comes to expanding them. The region itself does not need to be redefined, but we do have to sit there and go through every single point in the poly re-selecting it, and then re-defining that as the region's bounds. As I said, Octo was gone for 6 months, this is very likely his first time doing a poly region since returning. From my point of view, it's more than reasonable for him to forget how to do it, especially considering how I'd be willing to guess a non-zero chunk of staff have probably never dealt with a poly region. They're definitely not a "basic" staff command, they take a significant amount of time/work/effort, they're complicated, they're annoying, and quite frankly they should be avoided wherever possible.
Anyway, yes the mute and ban were uncalled for, but so were your actions after the fact. You conspired with Shen to lock this thread without consulting any other staff because you didn't want the person you wrongfully banned to get a fair word in, probably because you knew your actions were stupid and rash. http://www.villagecraft-server.com/forum/index.php?topic=5286.0 (http://www.villagecraft-server.com/forum/index.php?topic=5286.0) It doesn't matter what you or the rest of the staff though about that ban and that mute, your logic on them flawed and you let your emotions get the best of you twice. Not really model behavior for a staff member, especially one that has been around for so long.Others have already said this earlier on in this thread, but I'd like to clarify there was a lot of discussion within staff surrounding this issue. It was discussed heavily on the night itself, where there was no opposition to the ban despite multiple opportunities where that was explicitly asked. It was also discussed heavily in the days and weeks that followed. The discussion to lock that thread was taken by Shen, as the person who often deals with ban appeals. Octo was not involved in the locking of that thread. Again, there was discussion within staff which generally agreed with the decision at the time. Considering it's unreasonable to expect all of us to be available for a discussion 24/7, often actions are taken without unanimous consent. That's how the system works, it's how it has to work, else it'd take days for anything to get done. Over time as views were shared and opinions clarified, the outcome was changed, and that was reflected in the re-opening of the appeal. I'm not going to get any more involved in this specific example, as far as I'm concerned that has been dealt with, and the case is closed.
About your little backend systems rant, I have never been staff and don't really know all that much about how that works, I don't know how I would be expected to. However, it doesn't take a staff member to see that your logic here is severely flawed. You said that you couldn't be expected to remember the commands to make redefine a village, which is fair, except for that you didn't know it was possible. If you didn't remember and were aware that the commands to do that existed, why didn't you just check the VC staff utilities to figure out how to do it. Your lying is both annoying and rude to everyone here, for someone who cares a lot about the server, you sure do seem not to mind lying to the people who play on it.With regards to the "backend rant", I absolutely agree with not being expected to remember every single thing. Throughout my entire degree I was told that more times than I can count. If you assume you can remember everything, at some point you will make a mistake (be it a typo, a mis-remembering, whatever), and that mistake could cause serious problems. It's perfectly reasonable to check something before you do it, that's why documentation is there, and that's why people took the time to write it. With regards to the VC staff utilities comment, the documentation for that is "type /village help in-game", with little-to-no info on how else to use it. I personally still use the old method of protecting villages whenever I need to, because the documentation is there, and I can always refer to it to make sure I'm doing things properly.
To be clear, I was not directly provided those logs by a staff member. They were floating around so to speak.
I will not reveal any additional information about where I received those logs.
We had a pretty long discussion about it on January 28 in the staff discord. Ask the person providing you with your lil admin logs to check it I guess.Ask literally any staff member. They will agree that we had a discussion in the staff chat. I will not be supplying screenshots unless you admit who you got the admin logs from how about that ;) Me and @Akomine had a long discussion about the appeal so if you really want confirmation that it was discussed why don't you ask the owner :-*
Seems like the difference between those two things is that I have evidence to back up my claims, and you do not. I think that those screenshots are vital to this discussion, and would be very appreciative if you or anyone else who has access to them would post them here.
(https://i.imgur.com/XHnZ2TA.png)
I would love to see the evidence that we didn't talk about it.
Lol, right? Guess he speaks for the players and for the staff. Pretty funny.
you aren't wrong gerrit with your statement of having to make this toxic but the way you did it was poorly worded. it gets attention this is for sure but in the end all this post will do is just be seen and then ignored or wrongly criticized. people will see this as an angry toxic post that is just made to throw hate at octo thus you are unlikely to get anywhere with this.
I think there are alot of actually valid concerns and criticisms here, however the way in which it has been presented pretty much invites an argument rather than discussion.
We are all of different walks of life and have dealt with our own stuff over the years and still are and will in the future. I would encourage a genuine discussion rather than straight up insulting and presenting everything in a super confrontational manner like it aint gonna bring us to a good resolution. Also jumping on the defensive to criticisms isn't overly helpful and will only continue the toxicity but how else do you respond to what feels like a personal attack i guess.
Nothing is black & white, there are multiple sides to every story and the sooner you guys understand that the better, I don't believe anyone here is genuinely a terrible person fyi but that's not to say you all haven't made mistakes or been a dickhead at some point or another, we all do it.
Obviously stuff has been building up over a while so i reckon lets cool off, stop talking shit and riling each other up in respective peer groups and come at these issues as a community?
or carry on arguing and disregard this, the choice is yours xo
(Not to sound like a hippy preaching peace & love)
edit: Also just because we have a rule to free speech doesnt mean we all have to use it to be purposefully controversial all the time and make others feel like shit
This is directed at the whole community and not towards one side more than the other here.
my last reply to this post is gonna be that I believe Gerrit is incredibly misinformed on how VC staff operates, and hes talking out of his ass for a "majority" of players whom should speak up for themselves if they share Gerrit opinions
lastly. again, I will not take any post seriously that is "intentionally toxic" to me thats telling me you have issues with me personally and its not really an issuebwith me being staff.. despit you e saying otherwise. you came off as incredibly misinformed. and you are showing us how much of a knowledge you think you have "over" us staff i wanna say considering you are attempting to essentially black mail a minecraft server with their own staff log?i think your trying to work a personal angle here, again you've said otherwise, but I have my doubts as do other vc players. yeah im sure some share your opinion but if they do they can speak up.
honestly out of every post you made, most of which didn't make sense and contradicted each other, all I really got out of it i is I've been rude to some people. but who hasn't? I know you certainly have Gerrit. and I know I can be rude its not like its something I'm oblivious. oh and you might wanna stop bringing up that you have access to our staff logs because that's not getting you anywhere. and certainly isn't gonna help you in any way. Don't bother replying Gerrit, I won't read it, FYI to save you some time as I know how much blood sweat and tears you've already shit into this thread.
will say I appreciate the shift in tone here, I may not agree with everything you're saying here but then again I don't feel well versed or directly involved enough on individual sides of the whole thing to judge without a proper discussion, that's more for all those involved to hash out. I just think everyone needs to simmer and get the pitchforks away, remember you did create the post and the replies are a testament to the fact you basically seemed to set it up to attack Octo, or at least how it comes across.We had a pretty long discussion about it on January 28 in the staff discord. Ask the person providing you with your lil admin logs to check it I guess.Ask literally any staff member. They will agree that we had a discussion in the staff chat. I will not be supplying screenshots unless you admit who you got the admin logs from how about that ;) Me and @Akomine had a long discussion about the appeal so if you really want confirmation that it was discussed why don't you ask the owner :-*
Seems like the difference between those two things is that I have evidence to back up my claims, and you do not. I think that those screenshots are vital to this discussion, and would be very appreciative if you or anyone else who has access to them would post them here.(https://i.imgur.com/XHnZ2TA.png)
I would love to see the evidence that we didn't talk about it.
Did you guys discuss it on the 28th when the appeal was locked or on the 31st when shen's screenshots are from? I'd like a clear answer on that if possible as well as timestamped screenshots to show that a discussion actually took place. Sorry for being so anal about it, but I'm kind of working in the dark here.
I cant ask the person who gave me the those logs to check the staff discord because they are a non-staff player who doesn't have access to that space, as I've said before.Lol, right? Guess he speaks for the players and for the staff. Pretty funny.
I never claimed to do either of those things, however I do know that there are a large group of players who are not satisfied with Octo's performance or actions. The reason why so many of them are afraid to voice those concerns however, is because you guys leap on every opportunity to tear someone apart whenever they criticize your friend, who very much deserves criticism.
Dallas, I know octo is your friend, but that doesn't mean that he is immune from scrutiny.you aren't wrong gerrit with your statement of having to make this toxic but the way you did it was poorly worded. it gets attention this is for sure but in the end all this post will do is just be seen and then ignored or wrongly criticized. people will see this as an angry toxic post that is just made to throw hate at octo thus you are unlikely to get anywhere with this.
It is unfortunate that I had to make this post this aggressive and this toxic to get anywhere. Sadly, that is what had to be done. Does it suck? Yes. Is it annoying and tiring or everyone involved? Also yes. But I have tried to constructive and gentle in the past criticizing Octo's behavior and the only response I got was that Shen would "give him a slap on the wrist". I wish it didnt come to this point, but this is apparently the only way to get anything legitimately discussed. If anyone wants proof of that, go check shazam's appeal.I think there are alot of actually valid concerns and criticisms here, however the way in which it has been presented pretty much invites an argument rather than discussion.
We are all of different walks of life and have dealt with our own stuff over the years and still are and will in the future. I would encourage a genuine discussion rather than straight up insulting and presenting everything in a super confrontational manner like it aint gonna bring us to a good resolution. Also jumping on the defensive to criticisms isn't overly helpful and will only continue the toxicity but how else do you respond to what feels like a personal attack i guess.
Nothing is black & white, there are multiple sides to every story and the sooner you guys understand that the better, I don't believe anyone here is genuinely a terrible person fyi but that's not to say you all haven't made mistakes or been a dickhead at some point or another, we all do it.
Obviously stuff has been building up over a while so i reckon lets cool off, stop talking shit and riling each other up in respective peer groups and come at these issues as a community?
or carry on arguing and disregard this, the choice is yours xo
(Not to sound like a hippy preaching peace & love)
edit: Also just because we have a rule to free speech doesnt mean we all have to use it to be purposefully controversial all the time and make others feel like shit
This is directed at the whole community and not towards one side more than the other here.
I agree, sorry to all of you guys for coming out of the gate so hard, but as I said above it was apparently the only way to do it. This has gotten quite a big bigger than I expected and I think we should all cool down a little and follow Lish's advice.
will say I appreciate the shift in tone here, I may not agree with everything you're saying here but then again I don't feel well versed or directly involved enough on individual sides of the whole thing to judge without a proper discussion, that's more for all those involved to hash out. I just think everyone needs to simmer and get the pitchforks away, remember you did create the post and the replies are a testament to the fact you basically seemed to set it up to attack Octo, or at least how it comes across.We had a pretty long discussion about it on January 28 in the staff discord. Ask the person providing you with your lil admin logs to check it I guess.Ask literally any staff member. They will agree that we had a discussion in the staff chat. I will not be supplying screenshots unless you admit who you got the admin logs from how about that ;) Me and @Akomine had a long discussion about the appeal so if you really want confirmation that it was discussed why don't you ask the owner :-*
Seems like the difference between those two things is that I have evidence to back up my claims, and you do not. I think that those screenshots are vital to this discussion, and would be very appreciative if you or anyone else who has access to them would post them here.(https://i.imgur.com/XHnZ2TA.png)
I would love to see the evidence that we didn't talk about it.
Did you guys discuss it on the 28th when the appeal was locked or on the 31st when shen's screenshots are from? I'd like a clear answer on that if possible as well as timestamped screenshots to show that a discussion actually took place. Sorry for being so anal about it, but I'm kind of working in the dark here.
I cant ask the person who gave me the those logs to check the staff discord because they are a non-staff player who doesn't have access to that space, as I've said before.Lol, right? Guess he speaks for the players and for the staff. Pretty funny.
I never claimed to do either of those things, however I do know that there are a large group of players who are not satisfied with Octo's performance or actions. The reason why so many of them are afraid to voice those concerns however, is because you guys leap on every opportunity to tear someone apart whenever they criticize your friend, who very much deserves criticism.
Dallas, I know octo is your friend, but that doesn't mean that he is immune from scrutiny.you aren't wrong gerrit with your statement of having to make this toxic but the way you did it was poorly worded. it gets attention this is for sure but in the end all this post will do is just be seen and then ignored or wrongly criticized. people will see this as an angry toxic post that is just made to throw hate at octo thus you are unlikely to get anywhere with this.
It is unfortunate that I had to make this post this aggressive and this toxic to get anywhere. Sadly, that is what had to be done. Does it suck? Yes. Is it annoying and tiring or everyone involved? Also yes. But I have tried to constructive and gentle in the past criticizing Octo's behavior and the only response I got was that Shen would "give him a slap on the wrist". I wish it didnt come to this point, but this is apparently the only way to get anything legitimately discussed. If anyone wants proof of that, go check shazam's appeal.I think there are alot of actually valid concerns and criticisms here, however the way in which it has been presented pretty much invites an argument rather than discussion.
We are all of different walks of life and have dealt with our own stuff over the years and still are and will in the future. I would encourage a genuine discussion rather than straight up insulting and presenting everything in a super confrontational manner like it aint gonna bring us to a good resolution. Also jumping on the defensive to criticisms isn't overly helpful and will only continue the toxicity but how else do you respond to what feels like a personal attack i guess.
Nothing is black & white, there are multiple sides to every story and the sooner you guys understand that the better, I don't believe anyone here is genuinely a terrible person fyi but that's not to say you all haven't made mistakes or been a dickhead at some point or another, we all do it.
Obviously stuff has been building up over a while so i reckon lets cool off, stop talking shit and riling each other up in respective peer groups and come at these issues as a community?
or carry on arguing and disregard this, the choice is yours xo
(Not to sound like a hippy preaching peace & love)
edit: Also just because we have a rule to free speech doesnt mean we all have to use it to be purposefully controversial all the time and make others feel like shit
This is directed at the whole community and not towards one side more than the other here.
I agree, sorry to all of you guys for coming out of the gate so hard, but as I said above it was apparently the only way to do it. This has gotten quite a big bigger than I expected and I think we should all cool down a little and follow Lish's advice.
I would encourage you to try to understand staff decisions don't happen lightly and there are votes and discussion that go into that which are obviously kept internal and while we are all human you actually can trust the admin's and staff teams judgement on stuff rather than taking stuff at face value and forming an immediate opinion, however i wouldn't discourage bringing up questions and criticisms the right way at all, its still important, but if you come at everyone the way you did its just inviting more toxicity and I wouldn't say it's a necessary or needed tactic by any means, still thing that's a bad call mate. I would've recommend talking with the CM or senators because they can help mediate some of this stuff and bring it to staff in a more controlled manner or even just talking without being nasty in DMs if possible.
1 note gotta say I don't think it can be a question of activity because many of us have longer spells of inactivity, some are removed, i am one to talk after all, and i haven't dedicated near as much of my time and effort to the actual running of the server as octo in recent years, and still I haven't faced the scrutiny of that argument and the same could be said for a few of us.
On the issue of the Logs you provided I have to reiterate what other staff members are saying because I also think its pretty serious, it won't be taken lightly and I would also urge yourself or whoever provided them to DM Luis and sort that situation out.
I understand you probably don't see it the same way right now from the way you've spoke on it but it isn't just a few logs, its a breach of an internal staff area which raises red flags especially when you say they aren't staff etc, hope you can understand that and how it takes the spotlight and can cause anything actually valid you wanted to bring to be overlooked.
I understand where you're coming from when it comes to locking a friends post to save them or along that line but to be clear I have never and will never lock a post prematurely out of personal interest or that of a friends. From my understanding staff were in agreement and no one came out to object to the ban until after it had been locked. Still not sure why you needed so much proof surrounding an appeal that didn't concern you, but as you can see it was heavily talked about. I do like your change of tone and I appreciate the apology, I think if you had structured the beginning post better and not come of as toxic and demanding this might have gone better overall. I don't really think the logs were relevant or even helped your case, if anything it did more harm then helped.
I hope you understand he's not being removed for this. But feel free to write to your hearts desire!
I wasn't planning on getting any more involved with this, but I was name dropped so I guess I got dragged in.
With regards to the server crash, I don't really see that as him not doing his job. Yes, I am typically the one to restart the server when it crashes; I have a system running which notifies me within 30 seconds if the server is down. However even with that rapid notification, I don't always restart it immediately, because of the reasons Mali said. We can be looking at something else, getting a drink, on the phone, etc, which means it can sometimes take us a little bit to restart it. One potential thing that happened is both Yvette and Octo saw the other was online, and thought the other was going to restart it. From those logs it seems Octo was in-game and Yvette was the first to say it crashed, it would be entirely reasonable in my eyes for either to assume the other was sorting it. Or, even if not, maybe one of them was already fixing it and just didn't say that's what they were doing in the chat? I know I do that more times than not. Regardless, the server came back up in 10 minutes, which I understand is inconvenient, but it's also a pretty quick response from anyone. I know for a fact that with some major crashes, it can take the server >10 minutes to acknowledge you've told it to restart, so it could definitely have ended up being longer than it was.
With regards to the new spawn, I've tried to stay out of commenting on that publicly too much, although if I remember correctly at the time work was started without a vote, as Octo said. While there's nothing I can do to stop people doing what they want, I would personally have liked to see some sort of agreement on that, be it an indicative vote or even an internal staff vote, before starting such a drastic change, but I know I'm very much in the minority with regards to the whole spawn issue so I've learned not to bother speaking up about it, because it won't make a difference regardless. As for the gold thing, as far as I know that was not discussed prior to being created, and in fairness selling anything with metadata in showcases can be iffy sometimes, especially with things as complex a shulker boxes (there's a reason they don't work in backpacks). Regardless, shulker boxes work as an extended inventory now so the need for that specific showcase is no longer. Whether that ability remains beneficial when the dynamic market comes is a question for another day. For both these points, I think a lot of the disagreement between people arose from the apparent unilateral action to do them at the time (which I was also not a fan of), whereas in the past decisions like that had generally had more agreement within staff prior to being done, rather than in small conversations which were then taken as a decision
I'd like to clarify I'm not trying to start conflict with any of that, much of what I said was a probably poorly-worded personal opinion, which I typed while still in the process of waking up
I agree with Mali, just because it took octo a minute to respond doesn't mean he was unwilling to restart the server. He could have very easily just not replied in chat and made someone else do it. I pinged Luis because he was usually online and the main person who would restart after a crash. Your first point was much better, but there needs to be a lot more evidence and reasons which I assume you will address in your next posts.
I think you have a point with the first part, but the second is a bit weak. Maybe Octo was away from his computer, or looking at something else, or not paying much attention, and only realised the server needed to be restarted after Luis had been pinged. I think that in itself is far from being definitive evidence that he's lazy or unhelpful, which is what that conversation was meant to point towards.
I wasn't planning on getting any more involved with this, but I was name dropped so I guess I got dragged in.
With regards to the server crash, I don't really see that as him not doing his job. Yes, I am typically the one to restart the server when it crashes; I have a system running which notifies me within 30 seconds if the server is down. However even with that rapid notification, I don't always restart it immediately, because of the reasons Mali said. We can be looking at something else, getting a drink, on the phone, etc, which means it can sometimes take us a little bit to restart it. One potential thing that happened is both Yvette and Octo saw the other was online, and thought the other was going to restart it. From those logs it seems Octo was in-game and Yvette was the first to say it crashed, it would be entirely reasonable in my eyes for either to assume the other was sorting it. Or, even if not, maybe one of them was already fixing it and just didn't say that's what they were doing in the chat? I know I do that more times than not. Regardless, the server came back up in 10 minutes, which I understand is inconvenient, but it's also a pretty quick response from anyone. I know for a fact that with some major crashes, it can take the server >10 minutes to acknowledge you've told it to restart, so it could definitely have ended up being longer than it was.
As a quick addition to my previous post, I did some double checking and discovered something pretty relevant.He made some minor modifications to the spawn tunnel as an admin. Why would he need approval?
So the day after that Octo came on and complained about people changing things near spawn in order to show people what they would be voting for, Octo comes on and changes the actual spawn.
Octo was seemingly very mad that there hadn't been a staff vote to build a potential spawn and yet he felt that he could change the actual spawn without any sort of approval at all.
What kind of moderating is that? The hypocrisy is so blatant. Octo is taking out his emotions on people without reason, that should not be staff behavior.
Here are the links to the log block pictures. Octo added a bunch of obnoxious arrows to the spawn tunnel literally a day after he chewed everyone else out.
https://imgur.com/a/vrR6qgU (https://imgur.com/a/vrR6qgU)
This point is not weak, as he was doing the exact same thing we were, if not worse. If I remember correctly, Cyphur, correct me if I'm wrong, Ako gave us permission to start a construction on a new spawn, just to see what it would look like, and was even online giving us advice as we were building it. If "admin approval" is what is so important like you are saying, we had permission from not only an admin, but the owner of the server to start construction.As a quick addition to my previous post, I did some double checking and discovered something pretty relevant.He made some minor modifications to the spawn tunnel as an admin. Why would he need approval?
So the day after that Octo came on and complained about people changing things near spawn in order to show people what they would be voting for, Octo comes on and changes the actual spawn.
Octo was seemingly very mad that there hadn't been a staff vote to build a potential spawn and yet he felt that he could change the actual spawn without any sort of approval at all.
What kind of moderating is that? The hypocrisy is so blatant. Octo is taking out his emotions on people without reason, that should not be staff behavior.
Here are the links to the log block pictures. Octo added a bunch of obnoxious arrows to the spawn tunnel literally a day after he chewed everyone else out.
https://imgur.com/a/vrR6qgU (https://imgur.com/a/vrR6qgU)
This point is weak. It's nonsense.