My experience joining the server

[kale (OP)]

Being a new player to the server, I was unfamiliar with the marketplace, money, and other server-specific mechanics. I just went straight to the outlands and started trying to gather resources. As I was working on my village, I saw CRH fly down toward me with an elytra. I had no way to escape or fight back, and had hardly gathered any resources. He started killing me over and over, made me feel uncomfortable in chat, and stole all of the resources I had gathered. All of this only three days after I joined the server. I wasn't aware that he could track me down and teleport to me, I was utterly defenseless. I don't want to have to fight to get my items back, as someone who is unexperienced in minecraft in general. I have screenshots of him harassing me and Encant in-game and repeatedly killing us, plus stealing our items. Encant joined I hope that I can be guaranteed a safer and more enjoyable playing experience in the future. Both me and my friend joined 4/30/22 this incident occurred 5/3/22. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PghQPRg7gkqKtmHnoF_rbmvyHMUNqe3KiIbU0TAF8Ag/edit?usp=sharing

[CRH244]

Reporting me for something months after is takes place because you didn’t win a recent report against me I see.  I was told that a staff member said players were only not allowed to TP kill new players, which I did not do since I found you myself (along with you being a returning player on a new account). You were far from defenseless with netherite armor. I want to think that you came back multiple times after being killed with nothing to try and fight more but I honestly can’t remember seeing as this incident occluded several months ago.  Being killed a couple times for your head and then a couple more because you kept returning where I was still fighting. Not sure how you were the one made uncomfortable in chat when you were throwing curses at me.

[Wyatt408]

So you didn't tp kill her, you just tped super close to her and then killed her, over and over again, and stole whatever items she could've used to defend herself if she had the know-how and experience, which according to her, she doesn't. Probably what she meant by defenseless.
And you were killing her for her head, but you also stole her items and taunted her for not being able to get them back, and then killed her when she kept respawning in the place that she presumably set her spawn, given that she was starting a village there? And you're trying to justify killing her over and over by saying she was trying to kill you? After you stole all of her valuable and protective equipment, and you had plenty of chances to leave?
Seems like you're stating your opinions more and avoiding addressing the fact that you broke a rule (or two, if you count repeatedly killing and mocking other players as in-game harassment, which breaks rule #1) less, which is making me doubtful of your being able to con your way out of this one.
You tell others to "take the L", right? Maybe you should take your own advice here. Sorry.

[CRH244]

Just gonna wait for a staff reply if one is even needed for this case, no need to argue further here with Wyatt Yagami.

[Cbddallas]

I'm confused, as you said in your other thread:

I have been playing since 2016, stopped for years then joined back up in mid? to late? april 2022, when I first joined crh tp to me and killed me for my head and took everything I had before my village got protected. I also at that time asked for my stuff back and never got it. I then changed dynmaps to hide since then. (hope this answers)

This post says you just joined in April of 2022.

VC is a survival server, and PVP is allowed except in narrow cases which don't seem to apply here.  TP killing and trapping of new players is prohibited, but even if you fell within the category of a new player, it doesn't appear that there was a tp kill or trapping involved.  What violation are you alleging specifically?

[Wyatt408]

He used teleporting to pvp her despite her being a new player. That clearly violates rule #13, does it not? Because she joined in April and was tp-killed over and over by CRH 3 days later.
Also, if CRH had a case here, wouldn't he be arguing it instead of trying to hide the fact that he doesn't? Does regurgitating some unoriginal joke and trying to act tough while hoping someone else will jump in and defend him seem like something a confident man with a clear conscience would do?

[kale (OP)]

I accuse crh of breaking rule #13, because he used teleporting for the purposes of combat. There is no reasonable way that he would stumble upon this area as there is nothing within 1,000's of blocks. I was minding my business trying to make a village when he appeared. He both killed and harmed my villagecraft start by stripping me of my resources and killing me repeatably for the pure enjoyment of himself. I also believe he is violating #14 in trapping as when I went to spawn (the area where he tp to) there wasn't any way to escape. I would have to wait 5 seconds to go anywhere.

[Kittypopping]

Kale at the time CRH found you on dynmap. I as well as others had told you to turn dynmap off. You also state in your report that he “flew in” and killed you which means he would’ve had to fly to your location and was not tp in. Although I don’t always agree with CRH killing players I do not see any rules being violated. From what I remember I tp to you to see what was happening and stop it and watched you and the other player run at CRH trying to hit him to get your stuff back I believe that would also fall under pvp rules as you tried to fight him to gain back your items. Also untrue you knew about the market and how money worked as a couple days before the incident I had payed you a handsomely amount of money to buy your head which i know you used the money to buy diamond gear with.

[CRH244]

I didn’t break any rules. I had a home set nearby which does not fall under the teleporting combat rules. I didn’t follow you to kill you all those times, after the first couple to get your head and gear you were coming at me so yes I killed you more.

[CRH244]

He used teleporting to pvp her despite her being a new player. That clearly violates rule #13, does it not? Because she joined in April and was tp-killed over and over by CRH 3 days later.
Also, if CRH had a case here, wouldn't he be arguing it instead of trying to hide the fact that he doesn't? Does regurgitating some unoriginal joke and trying to act tough while hoping someone else will jump in and defend him seem like something a confident man with a clear conscience would do?

Thanks for the input and showing you don’t understand the rules, very helpful detective Wyatt.

[Wyatt408]

I don't know why he would set his home close to her village if not to spawn camp her, since his base is at x 1000000 z 1000000, which is outside the /wild teleport zone.
Kale trying to run at CRH obviously wasn't an actual attempt to get her items back, since he stole all her weapons and armor, and he could've easily escaped, so no justification there.
There is not a single mention of Dynmap in the pvp section of the rules, so that's simply not relevant.
But this extra stuff shouldn't matter, because the very simple fact at hand is that CRH broke a rule, and he shouldn't be allowed to circumvent punishment because of unrelated facets of the situation.
To make it as clear as can be, because this'll just go on for longer if I don't: rule #13 specifically says, "using teleporting for the purposes of PVP combat, which includes... any hostile act involving teleporting" is allowed. It then says that "Using this tactic to kill/harm new players is unfair and is not allowed".
Was kale a new player? Yes, this was 3 days after she joined.
Did CRH use teleporting for the purposes pvp combat against her? Yes, he used teleporting to get within proximity of her, and then killed her.
Did CRH harm/kill kale? Yes, he killed and robbed her.
Were CRH's actions permitted by the rules? No, the rules were very clear, but he chose to break them anyway.
This is a clear violation of the rules. As I see it, the most reasonable option is to punish CRH accordingly.

[kale (OP)]

I want to make it clear that this ENTIRE area is an island in the middle of the ocean, I have traveled thousands in either direction (getting a skeleton horse to my new house) and there is nothing in this area that would prove any sort of settlement let alone one made by crh. it is all outlands. I would like crh to prove the extent of this and have a staff see how close his supposed village is to mine where I was defensively killed. He teleported nearby then used an eletrya, nearby meaning I saw before there was any involvement of flying.  I was new that I didn't know what dynmaps were and the devious intent of some of the players. I honestly thought maybe he's checking out my shop, but instead was slaughtered within blocks of my home. Staff I welcome you to look at logs of me asking how to do anything in Minecraft. I was learning the basics when this occurred. I am seeking justice for not only me but my friends and friends to come on this server. You can also see my remark on the people here, I didn't feel welcomed.

[CRH244]

Having a /home set somewhere near a new player is not against the rules. Using /tpa to kill a new player is.

[Wyatt408]

The rules don't say anything specifically about tpa, just about teleporting in general, which you did. Starting to scramble a bit, aren't you?

[Cbddallas]

I don’t think y’all understand what a tp kill is. Finding someone on the map and traveling to them to kill them is not against the rules. At no point did he request to teleport to you and then kill you. That’s a tp kill.

[Daypath]

The rules don't say anything specifically about tpa, just about teleporting in general, which you did. Starting to scramble a bit, aren't you?

LOL

[Daypath]

I want to make it clear that this ENTIRE area is an island in the middle of the ocean, I have traveled thousands in either direction (getting a skeleton horse to my new house) and there is nothing in this area that would prove any sort of settlement let alone one made by crh. it is all outlands. I would like crh to prove the extent of this and have a staff see how close his supposed village is to mine where I was defensively killed. He teleported nearby then used an eletrya, nearby meaning I saw before there was any involvement of flying.  I was new that I didn't know what dynmaps were and the devious intent of some of the players. I honestly thought maybe he's checking out my shop, but instead was slaughtered within blocks of my home. Staff I welcome you to look at logs of me asking how to do anything in Minecraft. I was learning the basics when this occurred. I am seeking justice for not only me but my friends and friends to come on this server. You can also see my remark on the people here, I didn't feel welcomed.

since we were talking about rules earlier I think you could base tracking people down by map similar to the tpa rule for new players, cause both are unfair bc the new player doesnt know much about the server.

 there has been a few times where I liked killing trolls, so maybe you could add "not a douchebag" along with having to be new as a requirement

[Naomi]

If the Senate wants to implement a new rule like that, I would 100% support it. As it stands I'm not convinced any of our current rules were broken. Does it suck to be killed? Absolutely, I've never liked it, but it's not against our VillageCraft rules. There were no traps involved, no /tpa, which is exactly what the rule means I'm not following the home speculation with CRH seeing as when you're an old player you have homes all over the map.

Thank you Kale for reporting this! Every player has the right to report something if they feel it's against our rules for Staff to review.  It's of my opinion that no rules were broken but I'll allow any other staff to chime in if they feel differently.

[Wyatt408]

I think the argument for the rule being broken is that an action that goes against what is written in the rules occurred. People can phrase it in ways that make it seem like something else happened, but the fact is, the rule disallows teleporting for the purposes of combat against new players, and that is exactly what happened. Nowhere in rule 13 is tpa mentioned, nor is it even technically hinted at that it refers to teleporting to players directly. If someone infers something that isn't necessarily true and comes to a conclusion based on that, I wouldn't call that a completely stable conclusion. I'm not staff, so I can't officially do anything, but I'd be grateful if you considered these facts in the process of deciding what to do about this.

[Naomi]

Regardless of the technical wording, if you want to get technical Kale wasn't a new player. Finding a player on dynmap at this time and killing is allowed. I would love Senate to create a rule to help future new players but as it stands I don't see a rule being broken.

[kale (OP)]

I am strongly supporting this cause of maybe dipping into bullying but I totally agree that this sucks when you are killed and killed and killed. I felt so bad because I suggested this server to my friend and when we were getting started we were robbed of our things. As new players, there is no excuse to kill for fun, if it wasn't for hobbes I would have downright never joined the server again. I am seeking justice for myself and my fellow players. If I couldn't get back my stuff from a couple of days ago, I hope to get back what I lost when I joined. I am just now aware of the forums website as ofc I'm a newer player. I wouldn't know anything if it wasn't for the help of other players, it just sucks to see that its not as welcoming here as it should be. For the fact of the matter, the location where I was repeatably slained was within 5-10 blocks of -12798.226 68.0 4345.145 , the soon-to-be 401 region as many have visited. I would invite the opposing side and staff to point out the area of crh's settlement/village in proximity to me. 

[Cbddallas]

The rule is intended to prevent new players from accepting tp requests and getting killed because they didn’t know any better. It’s a survival server. If you die by mobs when you’re starting out we don’t replace your stuff. Nor lava, etc. You get plenty of money for armor and tools to start and everyone goes above and beyond to help new players. Even if the protections for new players were extended it wouldn’t apply to Kale, as they are not a new player.

Unless CRH asked you or someone else to tp him to your location and then killed you, it’s not a tp kill. If he had visited you, set a home, and later used that set home to come back and kill you, it’s not a tp kill.

[kale (OP)]

Me and encant are really close, I was on in 2016 for a bit but I only had one house in cloud city empire and I couldn't access any of my things as Purring_Goat is different than Purring_goat . I started off new and I would argue that 6 years would prompt a new player. I had less than 1000 when I joined in 2022 meaning that a new player and I had the same advantage.  Encant was completely brand new as a player.

[Wyatt408]

Kale's right, this could potentially also count as in-game harassment. Why else would CRH set a spawn close to her? Why would he choose to repeatedly kill her instead of leaving, if not to make her feel bad and harm her experience?
Also, since there aren't any rules for when a player is "new", I would argue that since the server, along with many of its rules and mechanics, must've changed over the five-six years she spent away, she could be considered new, because she's new to the overall experience of the game, this being supported by her having to build new structures, a new village, due to her old items being unobtainable to her, and her old structures becoming salvageable. And again, I'm trying to go by what the rules themselves are saying. If rule 13 was intended for something, it should've been written in accordance with that something. But it wasn't, and CRH committed the exact action that it disallows.

[CRH244]

I’ve stated over and over here, to my remembrance I killed Kale twice for gear and heads and twice since they were coming back to attack me. I had a spawn close for quick access for the one time I planned to attack. I killed twice because I was also getting their friend before leaving and Kale was still attacking. Give up the case detective Yagami, this one’s probably a bust.

[Cbddallas]

Staff agree there is no rule violation. This thread will be locked later today unless there is any new, relevant information added.

[Wyatt408]

Seems like you've been kind of biased toward CRH this entire time. Is this how you treat every dispute? Making a decision in favor of the person who did the actual harm, twisting the rules to benefit them, and ultimately ignoring anyone who has a different opinion? Information was provided that clearly shows rules being broken and you brushed it off.
Human resources here needs some work.

[Wyatt408]

Sorry, I don't want to start a problem here, but come on. "Regardless of the technical wording", as if the words in the literal rulebook don't count for people the staff are trying to defend. I don't see how this is fair treatment whatsoever.

[luisc99]

Seems like you've been kind of biased toward CRH this entire time.

First off, the person you're suggesting is kind of biased has been a practising lawyer for decades, and has been treating this very objectively, as she does with all these reports she provides input on. There has been no bias towards CRH, by Dallas, or by the staff as a whole. At the end of the day, VC is a survival server, and PvP is a quintessential part of survival Minecraft in multiplayer, and while we've implemented some rules to help protect people from PvP, we cannot and will not ban it entirely.

Secondly, there has been discussion about this case within staff, and the overall outcome of that is such that the staff as a collective agree there has been no rule broken. Similar situations have happened in the past, and those were also ruled as no rules being broken. This isn't a new decision, it's based on historical precedent.

Thirdly, if you feel the rules are not correct, you are welcome to work with Parliament to change them. However that will require more specific suggestions as to how they can be changed, rather than simply asking us to list stuff that's against the rules, because that would open up a whole barrel of opportunities for people to argue they're innocent because we didn't include their specific circumstance as one of our examples. The rules are written in such a way that they are able to be interpreted on a case-by-case basis, which the staff does by discussing every report and punishment we make. They intentionally allow for flexibility to allow us to take this case-by-case approach, and discuss things contextually.

I'm going to lock this thread now, before it gets out of hand. If anyone wants to propose some specific changes to the rules, they are welcome to propose it in Parliament. Similarly, if anyone has any further evidence of a specific rule being broken, you may discuss it with with staff or post about it here.