Open World PvP

[cjm721 (OP)]

Pre-warning I type a lot and try to do all the angles so if you can read it all i usually answer most questions.

Right now I have a few problems with how things are going with how open world pvp is playing out.

Today working on making a new village (underground) and all the sudden half my health go away and second latter I'm dead "eduartis has slain cjm721". So I /back and spawn dead. Do this a few more times asking for him to stop/give my items back. He does not and chases me around killing me a few times. I do see him fix the wall he destroyed to get in before he turns around and kills me again.

1. I don't mind open world pvp and like the idea of it forcing people into villages.
 But with this making the village is a problem. Eduartis uses the map to track down people and kill them so me being underground and no noticable thing above to say I'm bellow. The Map shows Hp/Armor so he knows if he can take you.
2. Killing for items is a reason to pvp but noone wants to go make a village if they take a step outside and killed.
   On me I made a whole bunch of stone tools but i did have a stack of redstone and 9 sticky pistons for working on doors to get into my place. That cost be about $500 in total. For me $500 is nothing, but what do people do to protect themselvs from mob? They put torches up everywhere. Now how to I protect against people well the only way is to watch and be ready. Well now that is counter productive to building. Also most villages do not have a mine that is fully integrated and can't have one for long so how do you get anything to be able to fight when you have no cash, can't get items, and your attacker is preventing you from leaving.

My Solution: Let pvp reward be a 10% of the player's cash. Giving the players stuff is too valuable from a variable that is so unpredictable, but giving nothing why would pvp but to piss people off (and make dieing not lose items when killed by player).

Lets take an example (real). Jack and myself where building felxium we both had diamond tools and inventory's full of cobble and wood. Ed and someone else ambushed us and took all our supplies which then required us to take another hour to get the materials again for it.

Now lets look at a fictional one. Someone has just started on this server and trying to build a new village because no one is on for them to join or they aren't a very social person. Now someone comes along and kills them. He has everything on him because he has nowhere to put it so the attacker gets it all. So the new player /back and is killed again asks to stop or tries to fight back but diamond vs nothing your not going to win.  So feeling as this server sucks because of the people leaves and joins another.

Personally I don't think this is the perfect solution but only think else I could think about was to have pvp a toggle per person, but on server side that could be very hard and have issues so that you cant just toggle on or toggle off at your pleasure. Also the cash gives insentives to kill others, but at least they can keep on building /home and work on something else for a bit.

Now for the death giving cash there are a few ways I just don't know if we can do it through creeper's servers
Command line would be  something like: (I have not done coding in a while so i know this is off)
<player1-death><player2-kill:player1><player1:/pay player2 10%ofbalance><player1-itemsrestore-predeath>

[Akomine]

(Side note: repeatedly killing someone time after time after time at their /back location just for the sake of killing them is being a douche... if you ask me...)

We've been talking about this problem a bit, and it is largely the web map causing it.
I'm thinking of adding permissions so people can hide/reveal themselves on the webmap at will.
I'm going to look into removing how it shows your health too.
If the permissions aren't that sophisticated, then we can always just remove everyone from the webmap, and let it remain a detailed map.

Wouldn't this solve much of the problem?
Yes, you could still be killed and lose your inventory, but it would be extremely rare for someone to hunt you and come up behind you underground. They'd have to stumble upon you, or stalk you, and you'd have a much greater chance of defending yourself.

Thoughts?

[JANUARYJONES]

I think the map is fine as it is.
Everything you're suggesting is babying the server.
I get being killed over and over is aggravating, but it's not against the rules, so I don't think anything should be manipulated to hinder the permissions we have on this survival server.

[cjm721 (OP)]

Yes it is a survival server but if you get killed once there is no way to come back if the person does not wish you to. There has to be a way so that the person killed has a chance or they should just /dc after being killed once and the server would not last long. Watch chat when someone is killed a few times by the same guy or notice how many people just leave.

Also how is a map that gives you a huge advantage right? I usually have it sitting up on my side screen and I have missed people. It has also saved my life a few times. If you cant run two monitors your at a clear disadvantage and that is not a survival server that is a killing grounds..

And Akomine You should be able to remove the line for heath so that it will most likely just show 0 hearts. I personally like the idea of making yourself visible or not just need to make that so you cant just toggle on and off real fast to see where you are.

[JANUARYJONES]

I use the map and the game at the same time without two monitors perfectly fine.
For traveling or otherwise, it's a great tool.

Removing the hearts and shield bars is okay.
The person who is killed has a chance. You can get new things and attempt to kick their asses, hire someone to kill them, or let it go.
You're being a boob, suck it up.
If this is such a problem find a new server, it's fine how it is.

[cjm721 (OP)]

Did you miss the part that I said it pissed me off but I did not care? I have watched people get spawned killed and just quit server and never come back. Now you thought it out you would realize you need those people because larger the base more donations and longer this server will be up unless you want to pay to $20+ a month to keep the host let alone keep the server running.

[cjm721 (OP)]

Also with how enchantments work it does not take skill to gank someone and that is not survival either just luck. When the required reaction time to live is less then the server lag I don't see how you can say thats fair play.

[huntman0697]

The map is good the only change it needs is it should not show health or armour so you don't know if the that person is killable

[cjm721 (OP)]

The map is good the only change it needs is it should not show health or armor so you don't know if the that person is killable

And I thought about that but then with how the enchantment system works its first hit wins usually/ drop lava knock-back into it. Now if there was a way in game for you to see people around  you I would find that at least let you get away or go fight them. I love the idea of making villages and then those being protected, but trying to work on a village when the rest are offline because you have time and you get punished for it I don't like. And on that note even 5v1 it still be hard for the 5 to kill the one as they hit each other just due to lag or might be a bit spread out and its more like 5, 1v1 right after each other.


More on a side note what do we considering griefing? Destroying someone's place, lava everywhere. Whats the difference between the blocks being in your inventory and in the world? Its just time.

[JANUARYJONES]

People are always going to be coming and going to servers, and there's already a decent amount of returning players.
Those people did what you should, leave and play somewhere where that won't happen to them instead of suggesting the owners turn their server into a kiddie zone.

I will agree the removal of health and armor bars would be positive.
Other than that, lol no.

[cjm721 (OP)]

Then say why. You can throw your opinions out there but all they did was go up and hit you right back in the face.

I like how you think I am against pvp. I love pvp and promote it just it needs to be an even playing field, and right now with how the game is designed its not anywhere near even.

Its like feral druids in BC.

[JANUARYJONES]

And that's all I'm expressing, my opinions. That's what discussing is all about isn't it?
We're discussing.
I never said you were against PVP, you said you liked the idea earlier.
I don't think you understand the meaning of survival.
Survival never entailed fairness.

[boylink]

I like the idea of toggling if you can be seen on the map or not.

[cjm721 (OP)]

Putting opinions out there is not discussing. Discussing is puting them out there then building a path a logic for why it works.

Survival to me mean to live. And in an online game the base should be fair. More work you put in more you get out yes. Being able to type in a url and know where everyone is when a lot of people can't is not an even base. Or that when  you /back you can die  before you load. It all goes back do done be a douche. If I kill someone and they aren't being trying to insult me I'll give most of their stuff back, I usually just keep armor or weapons, and a lot of times I'll help them build for a bit/give more materials. Yes I just killed them but I'm not going to be a douche and keep them from doing what they wanted to be doing which was building. You also need to remember that if an owner of a village is not on/one on that needs people. When someone new joins the server where do they have to build if they want to play then? In the out lands and lets say someone see the whole Welcome ____ to Villagecraft and tracks them and kills them till they leave. That is not good business and that person is a douche for doing that, but how can it be tracked. There are times where killing repeatedly is ok. Person 1 dies goes home gets armor comes back to try kill his assaulter. Dies and goes get more armor/weapons.

I much rather not see this server gone in a few months because the population slowly died off because no one new could live and then stay.

[DarkenedAngel]

Here is my 2 cents... but will probably be more then that.

Fist thing i have to say is HELL NO!!! to your killer getting 10% of your cash instead of your items.

here are my reasons why:
I have almost 100k so every time i die i lose 10k? umm... no thankx.
I am second on the bal chart which would be i would be the #1 person hunted down to kill and get money because above me is an admin i think >.>... no thank you.
Not sure how you would make it so they couldn't take your items in game.
They already are getting payed (sometimes) to hunt you down.

my feelings on PvP. I am perfectly ok with PvP. Even if i am just building my castle and someone breaks (literally puts a hole in my wall next to a locked door)  in an attacks me out of no where. BUT if i kill that person they should not continue to /back and attack me while i am weak from the previous hoping that because in the fair fight they got me to 1-2 hearts they can finish me off and take mine and there stuff. Seen this done 5 times (as in they /backed 5 times and kept attacking me not me attacking them, i wanted them to leave). Once they finally get lucky and kill you with a dirty trick knock you into lava they dumped on your door step and weaken you enough to finish you off they continue to kill you everytime you /back or /home regardless of if you are even moving let alone fighting back.

Just today i lost 44 lvls i was going to use on enchanting because someone somehow got threw a locked door and attacked me. I was perfectly ok with that. i /back and they kill me again in my area. i take the long away back to see them hanging out waiting for me. This is wrong. You should not camp out in someones area as if they owe you money ,killed your mom, or some other reasonable fight. You should not make it your job to stop someone from being able to play and do wut they want. Killing them and moving on is ok. not making their only option is to log off.

My solutions to the world PvP.
First i REALLY like the idea of taking ppl off the world map. Let the contract killers work for there kill. Makes it so someone can't stock another person and continually grief them. Toggle i a good idea.
Second PvP COOL DOWN! biggest part being if you were just killed by someone you can not be killed by a player or attack another player for like 5 mins. This will stop or limit the /back greifing. Not sure if you can do this or not but i think it would really help.

Probably some other things too that have just slipped my mind.

[JANUARYJONES]

I can agree to that, DarkenedAngel.

[cjm721 (OP)]

You have 100k (unique situation)? You can afford to have a full set of diamond and at least have a chance at coming back if ambushed. A solution will not work perfectly for everyone, but how do we stop the /back kills? I like the idea of the Pvp as it does mean you can't be killed, but it also have to mean that you can't pvp either which would take some working. On a second note because the iron door thing brought it up. Why don't we allow people to get block protection for their place and only get pvp turned off when it becomes a full village. That would stop a lot of griefing, not to mention could build yourself a safe room.

Also what diffrent then getting items compared to cash? 10% does not have to be the number could make it $500 or something like that. On my mining trips I will get well over 6-7k in one trip so the items are worth more then my balance while for you its the other way around.

[boylink]

First 2 page post! (I think)

[DarkenedAngel]

If you have it caped and not a % that is ok... like wut you said and it be $500 no big deal. Unless, someone is camping your "house" in the outlands and every time you /back or /home they kill you. Then suddenly you have lost a few thousand.

The only good solution to wut i am going to start calling "Grief PvPing" is a PvP cool down where after you die you can not be killed or attack anyone. The person that killed you can keep killing just not you. So he can attack 5 ppl and kill them all once but they can go back to where they were with out fear of dieing again. If the one person is attacked by 5 ppl they can only kill him once and not all five kill him once.

PvP can not be something that completely ruins your game for you (for that day/night) like it happened to me the other day.


If we can not get a plug in that will do this we need to invoke an honor system with punishment of jail time/fines.

[cjm721 (OP)]

I think there is ways to do it in the current system they have might just take a lot of scripting, but at the same time killing you over and over is against the rules if it is unfounded and most of the time we don't get our items back just because its a hassle. So adding something like a timer would solve that unless he waits for the timer to go off and kill you again but I hope by then you can just /spawn or something with lava.

And apparently taking people off the server map is just a plugin and its just a simple command.

If people weren't dicks I would have no problem with our current system, but people are and will take advantage of everything they can.

[DarkenedAngel]

If people weren't dicks I would have no problem with our current system, but people are and will take advantage of everything they can.

Exactly. If the cool down timer isn't hard to do i strongly suggest it. It can solve so much of this issue. If you get killed by someone who for some reason thinks you raped their mom last night if you have 5 mins or even 2 min to get back to where you were and collect yourself you could make it so you had a fighting chance. It would also make the person less likely to try and jump you right away again if you killed your attacker.

I still see a small problem of even with the cool down someone might still wanna ruin your day/night and kill/attack you every 2-5mins for 30-60 mins but it would be much more manageable. I wouldn't even see to much of an issue with keep ppl on the map if there was a respawn cool down on PvP.

[Akomine]

Good discussion here, so lets discuss these ideas:

Item 1: Give everyone the option to toggle themselves from appearing on the webmap (I'm pretty sure this is easy to do). And/or we can also remove the health/armour display.

Item 2: We look into a cooldown on PVP (not sure how hard this is to do, might be hard, and it might be annoying some circumstances).

Item 3: We modify the cooldown on /back (insanely easy to do).

Item 4: We do nothing, and keep it as it is.


Thoughts on any of these (and more) is appreciated. I'm getting good info from these posts.

[DarkenedAngel]

Item 1: Give everyone the option to toggle themselves from appearing on the webmap (I'm pretty sure this is easy to do). And/or we can also remove the health/armour display.

not being on the map will help keep yourself from being hunted down would cut down on this some. Hiding the health and armor wont change much in my opinion someone with all dimon will still take someone full health and armor if they get a good enough surprise attack.

Item 2: We look into a cooldown on PVP (not sure how hard this is to do, might be hard, and it might be annoying some circumstances).

I have already said a lot about this (and think i suggested it? lol can't remember)

Item 3: We place modify the cooldown on /back (insanely easy to do).

This is a little good and more bad. If you die after a fight you can instant /back after re spawn and only wait 5 seconds. If you die again is when the effect will be seen. So this will only make the annoyance of an attacker less because it will take him longer each time to get back to you if you kill him and might make him just not do it. Where as if you get attacked at your home/where you need to be at you can /back get killed again (if they are assholes) and then have to wait to go back to wut you are doing and the attacker wins because he kept you from doing wut you wanna do. He can also still just wait for you make you have to wait all over again just dragging out the pain. It could motivate ppl to first go buy armor so when they /back they might have a better but not great chance.

Item 4: We do nothing, and keep it as it is.

We could... but ppl are being assholes.


You didn't add in an honor system Idea with rules that need to be followed with punishment for hose who break them. This doesn't being no Pvp , just means no being an asshole for no reason. If to ppl have a feud going on and both wanna fight continuously then let them go at it. but if someone starts to pick on a random person just because they came across them and keeps them from enjoying the game they need to be punished. Like i said earlier "PvP griefing".

[Akomine]

For the time being, Item 1 is partially in place. Ask an admin to remove you from the webmap if you want.

If they don't know, the command is /dynmap hide <name>

[DarkenedAngel]

that's qewl... i think i will hold off on it tell there is a toggle tho... it is nice to be able to see myself every once in awhile when i go exploring.

[cjm721 (OP)]

Good discussion here, so lets discuss these ideas:

Item 1: Give everyone the option to toggle themselves from appearing on the webmap (I'm pretty sure this is easy to do). And/or we can also remove the health/armour display.

Item 2: We look into a cooldown on PVP (not sure how hard this is to do, might be hard, and it might be annoying some circumstances).

Item 3: We modify the cooldown on /back (insanely easy to do).

Item 4: We do nothing, and keep it as it is.

As Darkened said removing the health/armor not going to have much of an effect.

With the CD on PVP run into issues of people coming into your place and you kill them, and they can watch you until the timer runs out. Still better then most things right now i think.

Removing the CD on Back does nothing. If you kill you legitly /backing can get me killed or I just farm you more. Same from the person that dies. The wait time will make some people rethink.

And as for number 4 well I don't think this would be here.



Also I just look at my coordinates and look on the online map then.

[DarkenedAngel]

using ingame cords and then looking those up on the map is a good idea... not as easy but because i am newer to minecraft didn't think about that.

[huntman0697]

I agree to item 1 Nuff said.

[boylink]

z0mg that was a lot of reading.

[cjm721 (OP)]

Hunt will you please top replying to dead threads.

[huntman0697]

Sry it's addicting.