My opinion on Microsoft...

[luisc99 (OP)]

First off, please don't let the fact I have a general disliking towards Microsoft into consideration. Allow me to put those opinions aside for a while.

Mojang was bought by Microsoft for $2.5 billion today, and in my opinion marks the end of an era. The Bukkit issues, the EULA reinforcements, Realms, everything. This is what it's been leading up to. A sale. With the EULA now under Microsoft's control, there is no doubt it'll be enforced at every level (I'll let Ako speak about what he wants to do with that). This'll not only make it hard for servers to do what they've been doing to make the game so awesome, but it'll limit players too. On top of that, with Bukkit gone, I highly doubt Microsoft are going to want to revive it. If the Spigot team want to take it into their own hands, I look forward to it. If the Forge team want to work with other major modders to make Sponge, I'd be happy to see that sometime next year. If it comes to it, I might consider using MCP to update VC myself if there are no other options. It's safe to say though that 1.7.10 will be the last version of Bukkit for a while, if at all. Same goes with servers. We've lost many good people today because of this deal. Notch + Co, Some of the biggest modders in the community (cpw, pahimar, covertjaguar, etc), Most of the Bukkit team, Many other people who make this game what it is. And I can't imagine what the story for YouTubers and streamers is.

Because I can tell this is going to be long-winded, I'll sum up what I think will happen over time.

December: EULA changed to make modding require some overpriced licence. Possible API implementation to encourage this
February: Server owners will also require the licence
April: Realms (or equivalent) will be the only source of servers, forcing users into them
April: TwitchTV support will be stripped, and users will require a licence to stream or upload videos to YouTube/Twitch/etc.
May: Availability on Linux, Mac, Android, iOS and PS3/4 will become limited
August: Some form of DLC will be implemented for the game, and possibly updates
December 2015: Minecraft 2.0 (or 8.1) will be released, with major changes to drive people away.

Again, those were predictions based off of what I've read on Reddit, and what Microsoft seem to have a history of doing.


And now, for me. I've played this game a lot since Chaos told me about it. I've seen it go through many stages. I've seen updates come and go. I've seen mods being born and mods getting lost in the mists of updates. I've seen Mojangsters come and go. I've played on many servers before, until I found VC. This is honestly one of the best communities I think I've ever been involved with, and I feel honoured to be a part of it. From that very first day when I joined, I felt welcome. Since then, I've seen players come and go. I've seen people become staff (and some *coughcjcough* leave). I've seen great people in my time here. And most of all, I like this community because I felt trusted. Just over a year ago, Ako approached me and Chaos asking us to become moderators, and at that point I realised just how much this community meant to me. I was amazed that a group of strangers on the internet trusted us enough to give us power, and to be our friend. I've made many friends on this server, all of them because of who they are, not because of their age or appearance or anything, but just for who they are. One of the biggest things I think that's made me feel welcome here is about a year ago, Ako and Air asked me to help them manage the server with them. Again, I felt honoured that I was picked to help and be in control of something, even though they didn't really know me offline. This was when it hit me that I was a part of such an amazing community.

Now, my opinions on Microsoft. I've decided to play the game a little less. This is for a variety of reasons, including:
> I want to try and do more things both online, and IRL
> I need to stop being an introverted antisocial twat and start to socialise more
> I want to try to use java more in non-minecraft ways, and expand my knowledge
> I've spent the past ~2 years doing the same thing
> Other reasons I'm not willing to share.

I'll still play for the time being, until anything major happens to the game. (Note: The second I have to pay for something from Microsoft I'll quit for good.). This doesn't mean I'm quitting VC though. After a bit of a kerfuffle a few months back regarding my position on the server, I was branded as a System Admin based off of my work with plugins and development (I think. I still don't really know what my role is). If Ako still wants me now Runey and Noket are here, I'll continue to do exactly that. Developing and Managing the server. I'll just be a little more behind the scenes.

It does sadden me having to type this, and, even though I'm not going anywhere, I do feel that I've left something behind. As I said before, I've met many new friends on this server I'd never have met before. And to them I just want to say thanks. Thanks for being so amazing and kind and such great people. I'm not going to name you, in fear of forgetting someone, but you know who you are.

That's my stance on this then until Microsoft inevitably do something stupid and ruin the game. I don't want to leave this community, it's too nice.
Thanks!
//luisc99


TL;DR: Microsoft bought Mojang. Things make sense. Lots of amazing people left. They'll ruin the game. I love you all. I feel trusted and honoured. I'm not leaving. Cheese is the best

[Akomine]

Having played Minecraft since fucking ALPHA, I really don't like Mojang. This game could, and should be so much more by now. It's amazing to me that Mojang has actually done so little to the game over the past few years and gotten to the point of selling it for $2.5billion. Microsoft waaaay overpayed.

And honestly, were Notch+Mojang good people for the game's future? No way. They clearly don't care, and were just setting it up for a sale like this. They are time and time again exposed to be hypocrites.

Will Microsoft ruin Minecraft with DLC and weird forced licences that kill all of the servers? Well holy fuck, they just payed 2.5billion, it would be a horribly bad idea to destroy the community. They need sales. I can't help but think they wouldn't do these things. But with the whole XB1 fiasco, and forced Xlive for Windows games, I have no fucking idea what kind of idiocy they are capable of.

It's easy to be an extreme pessimist and give these sorts of worst-of-the-worst bleak predictions. But I do doubt the EULA shit will be quite as restrictive as you're predicting, because it will destroy the community. And they want their sales. I just hope they give the game the obvious updates it needs and proper mod API support. This would be the easiest way for the game to sell units. Some of the best things they could do are start by releasing updates that add new things to the game like blocks, animals, etc. Easy, well-liked updates. (They will probably do something like this if they have any care for the game).

HONESTLY, Microsoft will probably just stick with a single payment for the game and that's it. I doubt we'll see DLC. It doesn't make sense for MC, and I can't see them doing it. They might increase the price (which Mojang was doing over time anyways), but I doubt they'll change the financial model.


TL;DR: Microsoft shouldn't touch the money model. They should start by doing some long-awaited updates: add new blocks, new mobs, and simple stuff that people always love. Release a proper mod API (WHICH MOJANG PROMISED IN 1.0.0! Fuck Mojang.) and let people do this to an unlimited extent. The game will flourish with endless excitement and wonder and they will make their 2.5billion back easily.

Seeing Mojang leave MC may be the end of an era, but to me it's kindof good riddance. All Microsoft has to do is not fuck it up with restrictive bullshit.


--
About VillageCraft: We won't change. If there is a strict EULA that attempts to choke off servers, we will ignore it. You can all keep playing here until a lawyer knocks on my door (which won't happen lol). If Luis and co are interested in manually updating the server to make us independent, then that is awesome and excellent. I totally welcome that. Transfer to another mod framework like Spigot (should it exist) works for me too. Everyone can always come play without worry of silly legal bullshit. It's a game, and VillageCraft is about having fun. It'll stay that way.


--
About Luis:
I was once a semi-antisocial introverted twat at your age. Working to get beyond that is a smart move. I'm still introverted, and always will be, just not really antisocial. The introversion can be an asset, but being antisocial is a hindrance and you need to kill it. Being a pessimistic fuck is also a rough state of mind to linger around it - Don't. Go hang out with Chaos you fuck. Life isn't so serious, laugh often. You're British, you're supposed to be the silliest people on Earth. Monty Python fuckers.
"> Other reasons I'm not willing to share."
Look, walking around in public with a buttplug in might seem like something you need to keep private, but we're an open community of people and getting adventurous is welcomed. You don't need to hide things like this from us. Remember to use lube and keep a plastic bag with you just in case.

You're still sysadmin/admin or whatever your tag currently says of course. I've never been one for "ranks", as you might know. We're a team of people, and I'm not really interested in being the boss of a group of volunteers, unless they are looking for direction/guidance. We like you and are glad you're happy to stick with us


--
TL;DR - I doubt Microsoft would pay 2.5b for a game and then ruin it. Luis is kinky and wants to use buttplugs in public, but just needs to remember to use a sufficient amount of lubricant. Cheese is the best

[ChaosMushrooms]

Cheese is the best

I like microsoft and I really don't think they'd do shit with DLC so fek u luis

[luisc99 (OP)]

Having played Minecraft since fucking ALPHA, I really don't like Mojang. This game could, and should be so much more by now. It's amazing to me that Mojang has actually done so little to the game over the past few years and gotten to the point of selling it for $2.5billion. Microsoft waaaay overpayed.

And honestly, were Notch+Mojang good people for the game's future? No way. They clearly don't care, and were just setting it up for a sale like this. They are time and time again exposed to be hypocrites.

Will Microsoft ruin Minecraft with DLC and weird forced licences that kill all of the servers? Well holy fuck, they just payed 2.5billion, it would be a horribly bad idea to destroy the community. They need sales. I can't help but think they wouldn't do these things. But with the whole XB1 fiasco, and forced Xlive for Windows games, I have no fucking idea what kind of idiocy they are capable of.

It's easy to be an extreme pessimist and give these sorts of worst-of-the-worst bleak predictions. But I do doubt the EULA shit will be quite as restrictive as you're predicting, because it will destroy the community. And they want their sales. I just hope they give the game the obvious updates it needs and proper mod API support. This would be the easiest way for the game to sell units. Some of the best things they could do are start by releasing updates that add new things to the game like blocks, animals, etc. Easy, well-liked updates. (They will probably do something like this if they have any care for the game).

HONESTLY, Microsoft will probably just stick with a single payment for the game and that's it. I doubt we'll see DLC. It doesn't make sense for MC, and I can't see them doing it. They might increase the price (which Mojang was doing over time anyways), but I doubt they'll change the financial model.


TL;DR: Microsoft shouldn't touch the money model. They should start by doing some long-awaited updates: add new blocks, new mobs, and simple stuff that people always love. Release a proper mod API (WHICH MOJANG PROMISED IN 1.0.0! Fuck Mojang.) and let people do this to an unlimited extent. The game will flourish with endless excitement and wonder and they will make their 2.5billion back easily.

Seeing Mojang leave MC may be the end of an era, but to me it's kindof good riddance. All Microsoft has to do is not fuck it up with restrictive bullshit.

I agree, Mojang may not be the best company, but it's one which is very into its community. In regards to the API they'll probably bring out, lots of major changes (local server in 1.3, textures in 1.5, refractors in 1.7+1.8, JSON stuff + basic "plugin" support in 1. have been done to allow for the game to have a proper API. The game was never built to have an API.  It was never built to have multiplayer. They literally have to recode pretty much all of MineCraft to allow for an API to be in place. And with just 1.7 changing 1.4+ million lines and 1.8 changing over 30% of all class files being changed in 1.8, I'm not surprised these things will take time.

About VillageCraft: We won't change. If there is a strict EULA that attempts to choke off servers, we will ignore it. You can all keep playing here until a lawyer knocks on my door (which won't happen lol). If Luis and co are interested in manually updating the server to make us independent, then that is awesome and excellent. I totally welcome that. Transfer to another mod framework like Spigot (should it exist) works for me too. Everyone can always come play without worry of silly legal bullshit. It's a game, and VillageCraft is about having fun. It'll stay that way.

Interesting approach. I'll be interested to see your reaction on the day they do knock on your door

Having fun is always and should always be the point of a game. I think out of the EULA, we're only breaking it in ways people enjoy to make the game more fun. As far as I'm aware, this isn't a business. We don't run VC for profit or other stuff the EULA hates, but for fun. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we've ever had a complaint from a parent. Or a complaint about prices being too high. Or complaints about rewards being unfair. We're rare in the way that we've created new 'ranks' for people who really want to support the server. I couldn't agree more with Ako about the running of VC, and our stance. Long Live VillageCraft!

Regarding 1.8, (This isn't an official announcement, it's my comment) Bukkit has a 1% chance of ever updating again. Spigot, which is based off of Bukkit, might update to 1.8 and keep updating, but it was also DMCA'd for copyright issues, which could cause issues. Sponge was planned by the author of WorldEdit, Grum, Lex from Forge, people from Spigot, various Bukkit devs who haven't resigned, the creators of Spout, all supported by members of a subreddit who can offer to help out in certain issues (which I may or may not be a part of). This would take months at best to create, and probably won't happen for at least a year, if at all. If neither Spigot or Sponge make it, I'll look into working with either Forge or just pure vanilla to mod the server to our needs. I'd have to talk about this with Ako (And possibly Noket, Runey and Air though before I can say any more.

About Luis:
I was once a semi-antisocial introverted twat at your age. Working to get beyond that is a smart move. I'm still introverted, and always will be, just not really antisocial. The introversion can be an asset, but being antisocial is a hindrance and you need to kill it. Being a pessimistic fuck is also a rough state of mind to linger around it - Don't. Go hang out with Chaos you fuck. Life isn't so serious, laugh often. You're British, you're supposed to be the silliest people on Earth. Monty Python fuckers.

"> Other reasons I'm not willing to share."
Look, walking around in public with a buttplug in might seem like something you need to keep private, but we're an open community of people and getting adventurous is welcomed. You don't need to hide things like this from us. Remember to use lube and keep a plastic bag with you just in case.

You're still sysadmin/admin or whatever your tag currently says of course. I've never been one for "ranks", as you might know. We're a team of people, and I'm not really interested in being the boss of a group of volunteers, unless they are looking for direction/guidance. We like you and are glad you're happy to stick with us

I'll take your advice on board and try to be more social.

I do no such thing, honest! It's more of personal things that the internet probably doesn't need to know, and also things I'm still debating myself. This is an amazing community though, one where I probably would share things with.

I'll always be around as long as I'm wanted and needed! I don't think I'd ever feel right leaving unless something forced me to. It's a special place, and I love it. I think (unless someone changed it) my rage is sysadmin, whatever that may mean. The whole 'team' is another thing that makes us different, and that's what I like about it. And you're a great boss, even if you don't want to admit it

[Akomine]

Haha, I understand the work it takes to make an API for Minecraft. I just note that they constantly made false promises. Minecraft probably needs a large team working on it considering the size of the playerbase, and Microsoft can offer that. Who knows, it might be good.

I can fathom an underground build of bukkit being released actually, DMCA or not.

And, I'm glad to hear that, and thank you

[SirLogiC]

December: EULA changed to make modding require some overpriced licence. Possible API implementation to encourage this
February: Server owners will also require the licence
April: Realms (or equivalent) will be the only source of servers, forcing users into them
April: TwitchTV support will be stripped, and users will require a licence to stream or upload videos to YouTube/Twitch/etc.
May: Availability on Linux, Mac, Android, iOS and PS3/4 will become limited
August: Some form of DLC will be implemented for the game, and possibly updates
December 2015: Minecraft 2.0 (or 8.1) will be released, with major changes to drive people away.

I think with how entrenched the game and community is, forcing a server/modding license will destroy the user base. The outrage would be palpable. I'd bet on Microsoft just having something like near every shooter has now- in game server list with searchable criteria, possibly with "official" servers so they can push people onto them. Modding definitely will be made much more restrictive though.

If people aren't making money from twitch then Microsoft will have no issue with it. Many games are implementing twitch support as standard, so I find removing this hard to believe. It helps build community, which helps build popularity (which in turn helps build sales).

Not sure about dropping non-Microsoft platform support. I think just the fact they are now having Microsoft logo all over apple's shit is reason enough to keep support for them. But yeah, they would probably be petty enough to drop support for them.

On DLC and changes- absolutely. Microsoft only bought this for $2.5b because they believe they ill make more. That means paid DLC and/or expansion packs. The first Microsoft content patch (2.0 or 1. will also make many subtle changes that remove challenge from the game, making it "console  game" easy.

[Akomine]

You guys keep talking about how MS bought MC to make money, and while MS could literally just release basic content updates and rake in the dough, you sluts are listing all of these things that would obviously just ruin sales.

Why is it assumed that MS will restrict modding? Can anybody answer this? How is this possibly in their best interests? Have you ever played Halo games on PC? Mod Fucking Central.

Why do you guys think they'd change MC's update model into a paid-DLC model? Minecraft is already hugely profitable, and I simply don't understand why everyone thinks MS would shoot themselves in the foot just to piss people off and split the community between DLCs, instead of sitting on their newly owned cash cow similar to how it is now.

I bet you a lot of money that the first MS update will NOT be a difficulty nerf in a game that already has difficulty levels available. So silly. I don't get it. Where are the rational predictions?


I think Microsoft bought Mojang not just for Minecraft the PC game, but for all of the platforms it is on, future platforms, merchandise, future games, the whole culture of Minecraft. They likely think it is going to be a game in the social conscious for years to come, and the potential for money over time is huge. It's not just all about monetizing the existing game into hell. Think bigger.

[TheCatsMangler]

You guys keep talking about how MS bought MC to make money, and while MS could literally just release basic content updates and rake in the dough, you sluts are listing all of these things that would obviously just ruin sales.

Why is it assumed that MS will restrict modding? Can anybody answer this? How is this possibly in their best interests? Have you ever played Halo games on PC? Mod Fucking Central.

Why do you guys think they'd change MC's update model into a paid-DLC model? Minecraft is already hugely profitable, and I simply don't understand why everyone thinks MS would shoot themselves in the foot just to piss people off and split the community between DLCs, instead of sitting on their newly owned cash cow similar to how it is now.

I bet you a lot of money that the first MS update will NOT be a difficulty nerf in a game that already has difficulty levels available. So silly. I don't get it. Where are the rational predictions?


I think Microsoft bought Mojang not just for Minecraft the PC game, but for all of the platforms it is on, future platforms, merchandise, future games, the whole culture of Minecraft. They likely think it is going to be a game in the social conscious for years to come, and the potential for money over time is huge. It's not just all about monetizing the existing game into hell. Think bigger.

I agree, people think they will act like EA.

People are worried because a lot of big company's do this sort of stuff, but shooting themselves in the foot probably won't be what they are doing.

I personally don't know what to expect, but I don't think anything, particularly stupid from them.

If they make a mistake, I hope people won't shout "I told you so". Because everyone makes mistakes, what makes Microsoft's mistakes obviously intentional? What makes people think they won't notice if people don't like something. They spent quite a lot of money on minecraft, they ain't going to screw it up.

[SirLogiC]

You guys keep talking about how MS bought MC to make money, and while MS could literally just release basic content updates and rake in the dough, you sluts are listing all of these things that would obviously just ruin sales.

Why is it assumed that MS will restrict modding? Can anybody answer this? How is this possibly in their best interests? Have you ever played Halo games on PC? Mod Fucking Central.

Why do you guys think they'd change MC's update model into a paid-DLC model? Minecraft is already hugely profitable, and I simply don't understand why everyone thinks MS would shoot themselves in the foot just to piss people off and split the community between DLCs, instead of sitting on their newly owned cash cow similar to how it is now.

I bet you a lot of money that the first MS update will NOT be a difficulty nerf in a game that already has difficulty levels available. So silly. I don't get it. Where are the rational predictions?


I think Microsoft bought Mojang not just for Minecraft the PC game, but for all of the platforms it is on, future platforms, merchandise, future games, the whole culture of Minecraft. They likely think it is going to be a game in the social conscious for years to come, and the potential for money over time is huge. It's not just all about monetizing the existing game into hell. Think bigger.

To be fair I don't often play any big Microsoft titles so I wouldn't know if they have large modding scenes.

As for the DLC- I mean I expect they will still do content patches. As you say it would be stupid for them not too. But then there may be paid expansion packs and cosmetic content (purchasable skins for characters, items, capes, etc).

You know I actually forget sometimes that Microsoft isn't that bad. They make a lot of mistakes and say silly things (who'd need more than 1MB of RAM anyway?), but they treat the people like customers that deserve a service, and try to deliver. I don't think EA even knows the word customer, they are so used to only the things "sales" and "market", and this taints my view of large publishers.

As for difficulty- I stand by my comments. If Microsoft takes over development off Mojang then they will likely do some internal testing and review lots of feedback and then make some changes to make the game more user friendly and accessible. Some changes would be nice- an in game server browser for example, but I can't see them not also doing minor tweaks for "accessibility"- things like slighter slower hunger increase, easier to get XP, slightly more diamonds, or any number of really small changes that overall make the game easier.

[Akomine]

To be fair I don't often play any big Microsoft titles so I wouldn't know if they have large modding scenes.

As for the DLC- I mean I expect they will still do content patches. As you say it would be stupid for them not too. But then there may be paid expansion packs and cosmetic content (purchasable skins for characters, items, capes, etc).

You know I actually forget sometimes that Microsoft isn't that bad. They make a lot of mistakes and say silly things (who'd need more than 1MB of RAM anyway?), but they treat the people like customers that deserve a service, and try to deliver. I don't think EA even knows the word customer, they are so used to only the things "sales" and "market", and this taints my view of large publishers.

As for difficulty- I stand by my comments. If Microsoft takes over development off Mojang then they will likely do some internal testing and review lots of feedback and then make some changes to make the game more user friendly and accessible. Some changes would be nice- an in game server browser for example, but I can't see them not also doing minor tweaks for "accessibility"- things like slighter slower hunger increase, easier to get XP, slightly more diamonds, or any number of really small changes that overall make the game easier.

If the "DLC" is just cosmetic crap like capes, then that's fine. Expansion packs are a bit more iffy, and seem like a very odd thing to do for minecraft without a proper server browser.

lol, what's the 1MB ram reference? I'm not familiar.

Fuck EA.

Difficulty: more user friendly good, more accessible good, server browser good, slower hunger increase already an option in server files but a slower one from the too-fast default is good, easier XP and slightly more diamonds sound like very random alterations and who cares - mojang tweaked little shit like this all the time. I still don't quite understand why MS would make a sandbox game that already has difficulty levels "easier", but more accessible and more user friendly is totally welcome.

Ako's predictions: The game will pretty much stay the same and we'll see new content, nothing too radical. They'll fix boats in 2019, and if not then eventually we might see a new set of minecraft games with boats that act like boats and not loosely interlaced chopsticks just waiting to fall apart, which is where the real money is, and is probably why MS bought mojang.

[SirLogiC]

lol, what's the 1MB ram reference? I'm not familiar.

Bill Gates is pretty famous for predicting (in the 80's I think?) that no one would ever need more than 1MB of RAM.... So I just looked it up and it may not be true lol. Urban Legend then.

[Freelix2000]

I don't think Microsoft are a bunch of immature douchebags like Mojang, but I also fear what might happen from here. I'm more concerned about Bukkit though, its basically dead just in time for the finish of my Halo plugin. I don't plan on trying to change 5000 lines of code from Bukkit's API to Minecraft's modding API which may or may not exist in the next 5 years. I think the lesson is that when you create something like Bukkit with the purpose of allowing server owners to do great things with their server for free, you don't sell it to some bastards who are going to pretend to support it while they're actually letting it die.

[luisc99 (OP)]

I don't think Microsoft are a bunch of immature douchebags like Mojang, but I also fear what might happen from here. I'm more concerned about Bukkit though, its basically dead just in time for the finish of my Halo plugin. I don't plan on trying to change 5000 lines of code from Bukkit's API to Minecraft's modding API which may or may not exist in the next 5 years. I think the lesson is that when you create something like Bukkit with the purpose of allowing server owners to do great things with their server for free, you don't sell it to some bastards who are going to pretend to support it while they're actually letting it die.

In my opinion, Bukkit selling out to Mojang was one of the best things they could have done. Mojang own Bukkit, and they also own the server source code they were 'modding', meaning it's very easy for Mojang to grant a special license to Bukkit allowing them to continue development. Unfortunately this didn't happen and no licence was ever granted, as they cared about the community and wanted the community to continue working on Bukkit with minimal involvement from Mojang, which is probably why Dinnerbone + Grumm rarely responded to questions about Bukkit after the sell-out. Thing is now Wolvereness DMCA'd the entirety of Bukkit's code, it becomes an international legal issue, with GitHub involved. GitHub are probably not likely to un-DMCA it without legal proof it was fine, and to get that both parties would have to go to court, which neither side want to do (which is understandable considering what Mojang's been doing).

I don't know when the Modding API is coming out, or if it'll officially ever be released. It seems to me like they're rolling it out in stages, with textures coming first, then block/item id and handling refinements, then metadata *removal*, then model changes. I've spoken to Grumm about the future of the API and how he intends to deal with some issues, which I'll gladly send to people who want it. I also don't know when or even if Bukkit or Spigot are ever going to be updated. I've spoken briefly to @Akomine about what we could do, although I won't share my plans incase he doesn't want them public, or incase they never get completed.