Author Topic: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION  (Read 5302 times)

Offline TheLegend12369 (OP)

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Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« on: 5 April 2020, 11:58:28 PM »
Today on the server there was discussion about whether we should reset the nether when we update to 1.16. The discussion got pretty heated, so I decided to make a thread here for discussion. This is by no means an actual vote, just a place to discuss ideas and opinions related to resetting the nether. Please be nice to one another as always, as I know this is a heated subject. Thank you! :)

Offline Daypath

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #1 on: 6 April 2020, 12:00:24 AM »
nope
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Offline Paste

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #2 on: 6 April 2020, 12:03:17 AM »
I don't think it's fair to all the people who've built all sorts of things in the nether to have all their hard work deleted. Besides, all anyone has to do to see the new areas in the nether after the update would be to walk to a point no one's been to in the nether, and the new generation would begin. I don't think resetting the nether is necessary, or, in fact, beneficial.
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Offline Theologist_Green

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #3 on: 6 April 2020, 12:53:47 AM »
I would be against it all of the points above are the reasons I agree with. but Im not against having a new nether world that people can warp too.
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Offline Yvette

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #4 on: 6 April 2020, 01:00:45 AM »
Pro. There's very little content in the Nether and without trying to be rude, I think the benefits of a reset nether would greatly outweigh the negatives of a few lost blaze farms.
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Offline Saxturian

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #5 on: 6 April 2020, 01:22:37 AM »
Pro. There's very little content in the Nether and without trying to be rude, I think the benefits of a reset nether would greatly outweigh the negatives of a few lost blaze farms.
have 2 or 3 villages in the nether and i am very pro reset
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Offline TheLegend12369 (OP)

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #6 on: 6 April 2020, 01:25:56 AM »
Since this could potentially be a big decision, please provide reasoning for your position, as it could help others understand!

Offline Jack_Aubry

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #7 on: 6 April 2020, 02:07:37 AM »
From what I know there Isn't that much built in the nether currently, and since current pigmen farms (and perhaps other farms) are going to be useless (I imagine) in the new update I think it would be better to reset the nether. Especially since the nether will be improved so much, an updated nether will encourage players to use the nether more.

Offline Saxturian

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #8 on: 6 April 2020, 02:58:24 AM »
okay so there's a lot to unpack here.

firstly, people saying "don't reset, it's not fair to people that own things there," do you, yourself own things there? if not, that's a dumb reason, don't speak on others' behalf.

secondly, the vote to reset the nether has been done before, a while ago, here is the link http://www.villagecraft-server.com/forum/index.php?topic=1390.0

thirdly, it's not fair to players to say "oh well i have a farm so you will have to walk thousands of blocks to find this new shit"

two other things i have to say: should we vote again, fuck the veto feature, refer to my third thing. finally, it was discussed previously to isolate certain regions in the nether and not have them reload (i think they talked about using schematics?) which i think would be a great compromise to this issue. if the area around them generates weird that's fine, we can fix that, but one or two people shouldn't hold back a server.
this shit might be disorganized and might not make sense but im tired af so ill edit it tomorrow or something if i have to clarify
Quote
If you smoke my stash I will cut your dick off and feed it to my hounds so they get a good taste for your flesh. I will then set you free in the forest and give you a one day head start so my hounds get nice and hungry, then I will unleash them and they will hunt you and devour your flesh. hoe
-Airbongus

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I don't see why a little porn is dark but ok.

Quote
Also, if you do choose to hack VC in whatever method, I can get your IPs from the server log, and with more coding knowledge than most people here, I could easily and more importantly legally hack you back. And if you hack VC, I'll be cross. Don't try it.

That is all
Luis, in all his badassery

I love the yearly reminders that Jan has much bigger balls than I do.

Offline CyphurTheFox

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #9 on: 6 April 2020, 05:26:29 AM »
As someone who maintains more than one farm in the nether, I feel that I should at least have some input here. As of right now, I have 3 things I have built that I would prefer survive a nether reset, also I have punched a rather large hole in the nether ceiling using the 1.12 dragon egg trick that I quite like and would prefer to keep, whether this means having a staffer just WE in a new hole or something can be addressed later.

I am entirely open to working with staff to help ensure my constructions remain unharmed should the nether be reset. The three structures  that I would much like to keep around are as follows:

1: My nether fortress farm, as well as the 128 block radius area around said farm that I mob proofed (this took weeks)

2: a small construction that fits perfectly in 1 chunk, that if deleted may result in accidentally crashing the server

3: The Eldrin Blaze farm, while not mine, I think is really nice, as such, I would much enjoy if this farm is preserved as well.

Given that the 1.16 update makes the nether a more varied place, where building an interesting village is viable, I am fully in favor of a reset, on the contingency that I can get assistance in preserving some of my (and others') hard work.
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Offline Theologist_Green

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #10 on: 6 April 2020, 10:05:12 AM »
Like its not all black and while. I would much rather have a new nether we can go do instead of have a reset. The sever hasn't been reset for a reason the history is just so long.
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Offline OctoGamer

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #11 on: 6 April 2020, 10:42:56 AM »
VC has done a nether reset before, no? If so, I'm all for it again despite having stuff in the nether, I would just want a grace period where we have announcements on the server and people can get their items out. I think I mostly just have a few blaze farms with decent items... trying to think of any major villages in the nether we could preserve with clipboard. anyone got any examples?

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #12 on: 6 April 2020, 10:47:00 AM »
http://www.villagecraft-server.com/forum/index.php?topic=1390.0


PARLIAMENT VOTE #10 - Link
An Act to regenerate the Nether

Status: VOTE FAILED
Reason: Veto
Voting Ended: April 01, 2013

Votes:
Veto

If this act passes: The Nether will be completely regenerated so that all chunks will contain Nether Quartz.

Active owners of Nether villages may veto this vote.

All Members of Parliament may vote.
For the act to pass, a majority of voting MPs must vote in favour.

I see, it was vetoed, well I'm down now still. it's ugly in the nether. We can save peoples villages if they wish and speak up. If this goes through of course.

Offline Brutalfive

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #13 on: 6 April 2020, 11:24:14 AM »
I don't think it's fair to all the people who've built all sorts of things in the nether to have all their hard work deleted. Besides, all anyone has to do to see the new areas in the nether after the update would be to walk to a point no one's been to in the nether, and the new generation would begin. I don't think resetting the nether is necessary, or, in fact, beneficial.

I think that we should not reset the nether for all the reasons stated, but I understand the other side. So as Luis mentioned in a previous thread, we could add new warps to new regions as new updates emerge. So I propose that we keep the neither as it is, then create a new warp to the area of which will be regenerated. This way those with things built can keep them and those who want to experience the new nether can do so, its a win win for everyone as far as I'm concerned. It will also be much easier to make a new warp than trying to rebuild everything that people have done (even with staffs help, it will be easier for them and players to make a new warp than W/E and rebuilding and such - which could increase lag, of which we are all too much familiar with atm)

Offline Saxturian

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #14 on: 6 April 2020, 11:35:42 AM »
As someone who maintains more than one farm in the nether, I feel that I should at least have some input here. As of right now, I have 3 things I have built that I would prefer survive a nether reset, also I have punched a rather large hole in the nether ceiling using the 1.12 dragon egg trick that I quite like and would prefer to keep, whether this means having a staffer just WE in a new hole or something can be addressed later.

I am entirely open to working with staff to help ensure my constructions remain unharmed should the nether be reset. The three structures  that I would much like to keep around are as follows:

1: My nether fortress farm, as well as the 128 block radius area around said farm that I mob proofed (this took weeks)

2: a small construction that fits perfectly in 1 chunk, that if deleted may result in accidentally crashing the server

3: The Eldrin Blaze farm, while not mine, I think is really nice, as such, I would much enjoy if this farm is preserved as well.

Given that the 1.16 update makes the nether a more varied place, where building an interesting village is viable, I am fully in favor of a reset, on the contingency that I can get assistance in preserving some of my (and others') hard work.
@luisc99 what do you think about the proposed 'compromise'? is it viable?
also pretty sure we can only preserve places you own should this reset, but if the owner (i think luis lel) says sure then ya, all your stuff is on the table if luis thinks we can make it work
Quote
If you smoke my stash I will cut your dick off and feed it to my hounds so they get a good taste for your flesh. I will then set you free in the forest and give you a one day head start so my hounds get nice and hungry, then I will unleash them and they will hunt you and devour your flesh. hoe
-Airbongus

Quote
I don't see why a little porn is dark but ok.

Quote
Also, if you do choose to hack VC in whatever method, I can get your IPs from the server log, and with more coding knowledge than most people here, I could easily and more importantly legally hack you back. And if you hack VC, I'll be cross. Don't try it.

That is all
Luis, in all his badassery

I love the yearly reminders that Jan has much bigger balls than I do.

Offline Frog

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #15 on: 6 April 2020, 11:53:46 AM »
As someone who maintains more than one farm in the nether, I feel that I should at least have some input here. As of right now, I have 3 things I have built that I would prefer survive a nether reset, also I have punched a rather large hole in the nether ceiling using the 1.12 dragon egg trick that I quite like and would prefer to keep, whether this means having a staffer just WE in a new hole or something can be addressed later.

I am entirely open to working with staff to help ensure my constructions remain unharmed should the nether be reset. The three structures  that I would much like to keep around are as follows:

1: My nether fortress farm, as well as the 128 block radius area around said farm that I mob proofed (this took weeks)

2: a small construction that fits perfectly in 1 chunk, that if deleted may result in accidentally crashing the server

3: The Eldrin Blaze farm, while not mine, I think is really nice, as such, I would much enjoy if this farm is preserved as well.

Given that the 1.16 update makes the nether a more varied place, where building an interesting village is viable, I am fully in favor of a reset, on the contingency that I can get assistance in preserving some of my (and others') hard work.
@luisc99 what do you think about the proposed 'compromise'? is it viable?
also pretty sure we can only preserve places you own should this reset, but if the owner (i think luis lel) says sure then ya, all your stuff is on the table if luis thinks we can make it work

I remember hearing something from another server where they had reset all the chunks in the world that had not been loaded for more than an hour in total (cumulative) to reduce disk space. I think this, if implementable, would be a useful way to keep older, more developed areas intact while freeing up some other places near spawn without much infrastructure.. While I would have no idea how to implement it (@luisc99 might be able to help some), I would think that this could be a good way of striking a balance of sorts.
« Last Edit: 6 April 2020, 05:16:01 PM by Frog »

Offline Akomine

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #16 on: 6 April 2020, 02:07:49 PM »
VC has done a nether reset before, no? If so, I'm all for it again despite having stuff in the nether, I would just want a grace period where we have announcements on the server and people can get their items out. I think I mostly just have a few blaze farms with decent items... trying to think of any major villages in the nether we could preserve with clipboard. anyone got any examples?

Ya a grace period makes total sense. We should preserve the Prison of the Banished area.


I remember hearing something from another server where they had reset all the chunks in the world that had not been loaded for more than an hour to reduce disk space. I think this, if implementable, would be a useful way to keep older, more developed areas intact while freeing up some other places near spawn without much infrastructure.. While I would have no idea how to implement it (@luisc99 might be able to help some), I would think that this could be a good way of striking a balance of sorts.

An hour!? Only an hour? So if someone logs out for more than 1 hr they're fucked? haha


As someone who maintains more than one farm in the nether, I feel that I should at least have some input here. As of right now, I have 3 things I have built that I would prefer survive a nether reset, also I have punched a rather large hole in the nether ceiling using the 1.12 dragon egg trick that I quite like and would prefer to keep, whether this means having a staffer just WE in a new hole or something can be addressed later.

I am entirely open to working with staff to help ensure my constructions remain unharmed should the nether be reset. The three structures  that I would much like to keep around are as follows:

1: My nether fortress farm, as well as the 128 block radius area around said farm that I mob proofed (this took weeks)

2: a small construction that fits perfectly in 1 chunk, that if deleted may result in accidentally crashing the server

3: The Eldrin Blaze farm, while not mine, I think is really nice, as such, I would much enjoy if this farm is preserved as well.

Given that the 1.16 update makes the nether a more varied place, where building an interesting village is viable, I am fully in favor of a reset, on the contingency that I can get assistance in preserving some of my (and others') hard work.
@luisc99 what do you think about the proposed 'compromise'? is it viable?
also pretty sure we can only preserve places you own should this reset, but if the owner (i think luis lel) says sure then ya, all your stuff is on the table if luis thinks we can make it work

The compromise of manually preserving certain areas is easily viable.


I don't think it's fair to all the people who've built all sorts of things in the nether to have all their hard work deleted. Besides, all anyone has to do to see the new areas in the nether after the update would be to walk to a point no one's been to in the nether, and the new generation would begin. I don't think resetting the nether is necessary, or, in fact, beneficial.

I think that we should not reset the nether for all the reasons stated, but I understand the other side. So as Luis mentioned in a previous thread, we could add new warps to new regions as new updates emerge. So I propose that we keep the neither as it is, then create a new warp to the area of which will be regenerated. This way those with things built can keep them and those who want to experience the new nether can do so, its a win win for everyone as far as I'm concerned. It will also be much easier to make a new warp than trying to rebuild everything that people have done (even with staffs help, it will be easier for them and players to make a new warp than W/E and rebuilding and such - which could increase lag, of which we are all too much familiar with atm)

This is also a fine option. Just use the nether further out. I'm fine with a reset too, if the new nether updates are so much better
« Last Edit: 6 April 2020, 02:13:58 PM by Akomine »

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Offline Naomi

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #17 on: 6 April 2020, 02:32:02 PM »
As someone who loves history it would be a shame to loose a few of the awesome builds in the nether, but personally I am in favor of a reset. The only thing I personally have built in there is okay and I don't mind rebuilding it better. As those above have been saying, the important things can be possibly saved and a grace period to save what you want from the nether seems like a fair compromise. As it is I can never find quartz in the nether easily and with the nether revamp in the next update I think it would be overall beneficial to reset.
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Offline Yvette

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #18 on: 6 April 2020, 02:46:05 PM »
dont get me wrong i love history too, id never support a reset of historically significant places - i just feel that as of rn there isnt a whole ton of history in the nether, and the amount of new history that would be made would be well worth the trade off.

If we could find a way to bring over some builds people want that would be optimal but we'll wait for Luis to weigh in on that.
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Offline Akomine

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #19 on: 6 April 2020, 02:56:33 PM »
dont get me wrong i love history too, id never support a reset of historically significant places - i just feel that as of rn there isnt a whole ton of history in the nether, and the amount of new history that would be made would be well worth the trade off.

If we could find a way to bring over some builds people want that would be optimal but we'll wait for Luis to weigh in on that.

I agree, the nether has minimal history. It's mostly a mess really, and the good bits can be saved and brought over. We don't need Luis to weigh in, it is possible with worldedit schematics.

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #20 on: 6 April 2020, 03:08:42 PM »
RESET

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Offline luisc99

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #21 on: 6 April 2020, 03:58:35 PM »
I'm only just replying to this thread because I've spent most of the day downloading and checking the 32.5GB that make up the Nether.

This image shows all the chunks that have been generated around spawn, with 0,0 being roughly in the middle. Anything that's black are chunks that have not yet generated, and if explored in 1.16, would generate with the 1.16 terrain. Anywhere that's grey are areas where the entire region file hasn't been created yet, so every chunk in that region would be up for fresh generation in 1.16. The orange areas are chunks which have had a player in them for less than 30 minutes total, since whichever update added the counter (I think the one before ocean monuments were added, so 1.7 or 1.8 maybe?). Similarly, red ones are region files where every chunk in the file has been inhabited for less than 30 minutes. The gridlines are every 512 blocks. As you can see, the only areas of the Nether which have been in heavy use make up a circle around 2000 blocks in radius.

This second image shows the current Dynmap view of the Nether. It's not fully up to date, so not every chunk is shown on it, but it does highlight all the protected regions in the area around spawn. The scale isn't perfect, but it's *roughly* the same scale in both images. This shows, again, things are mostly contained to within the immediate area surrounding spawn.

I think if we were to reset anything, I'd personally be strongly in favour of keeping the 2000(ish) radius circle around spawn, as well as any villages currently protected.

However, I also don't think there is a super vital need to regenerate the entire Nether. The way it was dealt with in the End was by Mojang adding in the portals to take you further out. It would be super easy for me to add 4/8/16/32/howevermany portals that come out in a ring at around 10,000 radius, which would be plenty far enough for new terrain to be generated. What's more, with the new biome areas we'd be opening in 1.16 mentioned in the "New World" thread, each of those locations would be sufficiently far out in the Nether that it would be guaranteed new terrain. The End has 20 portals which generate, and each of them end up miles apart from each other when further, out. In the Overworld, we were going to limit how many we used so we had room for expansion when new biomes came out. I can't forsee Mojang changing Nether generation massively for a few years after this update, so theoretically there's nothing stopping us adding as many portals as we want taking you further out. We could start out wit 16, and if they all get used up, we could add another subdivision between them.

Yes, it's easy to move structures. It would be even easier to move entire region files, which would avoid a LOT of tedious work involved in making sure everything gets copied over to the right place. If we did decide to regain the entire Nether, there are ways to copy things over.

That being said, I'm not personally convinced it's all that necessary. Due to the 1:8 ratio thing, the Nether isn't like the Overworld. Not that much of it has been explored. Now we have elytra it doesn't take an awful long time to travel out to bits that haven't been explored. We could make proper ways to the roof for easy transport, or we could do the portals as mentioned earlier.



TL;DR: The Nether isn't as big as you might think, but it's also very much not empty. It's mostly all contained within a smallish circle around 0,0, with a few villages around the place. It would be possible to move things over, the exact method would dictate how difficult it would be though. My personal view would be to use a solution similar to that in the End, where we add portals to take people further out, which combined with the overworld portals, would provide plenty of room in the Nether for people to explore for the foreseeable future.

Offline TheLegend12369 (OP)

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #22 on: 6 April 2020, 05:00:19 PM »
I'm only just replying to this thread because I've spent most of the day downloading and checking the 32.5GB that make up the Nether.

This image shows all the chunks that have been generated around spawn, with 0,0 being roughly in the middle. Anything that's black are chunks that have not yet generated, and if explored in 1.16, would generate with the 1.16 terrain. Anywhere that's grey are areas where the entire region file hasn't been created yet, so every chunk in that region would be up for fresh generation in 1.16. The orange areas are chunks which have had a player in them for less than 30 minutes total, since whichever update added the counter (I think the one before ocean monuments were added, so 1.7 or 1.8 maybe?). Similarly, red ones are region files where every chunk in the file has been inhabited for less than 30 minutes. The gridlines are every 512 blocks. As you can see, the only areas of the Nether which have been in heavy use make up a circle around 2000 blocks in radius.

This second image shows the current Dynmap view of the Nether. It's not fully up to date, so not every chunk is shown on it, but it does highlight all the protected regions in the area around spawn. The scale isn't perfect, but it's *roughly* the same scale in both images. This shows, again, things are mostly contained to within the immediate area surrounding spawn.

I think if we were to reset anything, I'd personally be strongly in favour of keeping the 2000(ish) radius circle around spawn, as well as any villages currently protected.

However, I also don't think there is a super vital need to regenerate the entire Nether. The way it was dealt with in the End was by Mojang adding in the portals to take you further out. It would be super easy for me to add 4/8/16/32/howevermany portals that come out in a ring at around 10,000 radius, which would be plenty far enough for new terrain to be generated. What's more, with the new biome areas we'd be opening in 1.16 mentioned in the "New World" thread, each of those locations would be sufficiently far out in the Nether that it would be guaranteed new terrain. The End has 20 portals which generate, and each of them end up miles apart from each other when further, out. In the Overworld, we were going to limit how many we used so we had room for expansion when new biomes came out. I can't forsee Mojang changing Nether generation massively for a few years after this update, so theoretically there's nothing stopping us adding as many portals as we want taking you further out. We could start out wit 16, and if they all get used up, we could add another subdivision between them.

Yes, it's easy to move structures. It would be even easier to move entire region files, which would avoid a LOT of tedious work involved in making sure everything gets copied over to the right place. If we did decide to regain the entire Nether, there are ways to copy things over.

That being said, I'm not personally convinced it's all that necessary. Due to the 1:8 ratio thing, the Nether isn't like the Overworld. Not that much of it has been explored. Now we have elytra it doesn't take an awful long time to travel out to bits that haven't been explored. We could make proper ways to the roof for easy transport, or we could do the portals as mentioned earlier.



TL;DR: The Nether isn't as big as you might think, but it's also very much not empty. It's mostly all contained within a smallish circle around 0,0, with a few villages around the place. It would be possible to move things over, the exact method would dictate how difficult it would be though. My personal view would be to use a solution similar to that in the End, where we add portals to take people further out, which combined with the overworld portals, would provide plenty of room in the Nether for people to explore for the foreseeable future.

I haven't commented so far because I wanted to hear everyone else's opinions, but this is the plan I agree with the most. That way the people that enjoy the current nether don't have to worry about their things being reset, but those who want the new nether can just jump into a portal around the nether spawn. It's the best of both worlds, imo. I'm very interested in exploring the new nether and seeing villages appear there, and perhaps we can have a village board outside each other the portals around spawn that list nearby villages there, similar to warp ad but in the nether?

Offline Frog

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #23 on: 6 April 2020, 05:14:40 PM »
I remember hearing something from another server where they had reset all the chunks in the world that had not been loaded for more than an hour to reduce disk space. I think this, if implementable, would be a useful way to keep older, more developed areas intact while freeing up some other places near spawn without much infrastructure.. While I would have no idea how to implement it (@luisc99 might be able to help some), I would think that this could be a good way of striking a balance of sorts.

I guess I worded that quite vaguely... I meant that if those chunks had been loaded for a total of less than an hour in their existence, they would be reset.
« Last Edit: 7 April 2020, 04:43:24 PM by Frog »

Offline Akomine

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Re: Reset the Nether in 1.16 DISCUSSION
« Reply #24 on: 6 April 2020, 09:01:39 PM »
I remember hearing something from another server where they had reset all the chunks in the world that had not been loaded for more than an hour to reduce disk space. I think this, if implementable, would be a useful way to keep older, more developed areas intact while freeing up some other places near spawn without much infrastructure.. While I would have no idea how to implement it (@luisc99 might be able to help some), I would think that this could be a good way of striking a balance of sorts.

I guess I worded that quite vaguely... I meant that if those chunks had been loaded for a total of less than an hour in their existence would be reset.

Oh lol, this makes more sense.


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