MP Motion to Start a Vote: DISCUSSION of Farm Regulation

[OctoGamer]

so, I have to either run commands to disable, or do a lot more work to a farm thats been completed for years. I don't really think either of that is fair especially where I can only run commands to disable my farm because i'm staff. but I'll do what I have to.

@Akomine As cyphurs already pointed out the specs of my farm for me and what its gonna need done to it I wont go into depth on the details of how it works. unfortunately no, I can't just add a lever to disable it,
I'd really like a solution other than modify it or run commands to disable it, as again, I don't think modifying is something people should have to do.

also one thought I've been having that I would like to point out, adding this rule essentially adds a "farm policing"  rule to VillageCraft. (even if its temporary)
i felt this way about the Iron Golem farm ban too, which was undone.

"We're here to help you; not to police you." is one of the signs in the spawn tunnel.
This rule has policing written all over it  in my opinion.

[Lividup64]

so, I have to either run commands to disable, or do a lot more work to a farm thats been completed for years. I don't really think either of that is fair especially where I can only run commands to disable my farm because i'm staff. but I'll do what I have to.

@Akomine As cyphurs already pointed out the specs of my farm for me and what its gonna need done to it I wont go into depth on the details of how it works. unfortunately no, I can't just add a lever to disable it,
I'd really like a solution other than modify it or run commands to disable it, as again, I don't think modifying is something people should have to do.

also one thought I've been having that I would like to point out, adding this rule essentially adds a "farm policing"  rule to VillageCraft. (even if its temporary)
i felt this way about the Iron Golem farm ban too, which was undone.

"We're here to help you; not to police you." is one of the signs in the spawn tunnel.
This rule has policing written all over it  in my opinion.

yes i agree, this all seems very complicated and intimidating to new players, I think the role of staff should remain very laissez-faire and that farms should not be regulated and players should be allowed to do as they wish to ensure as close to a vanilla+ experience as possible

[Yvette]

so, I have to either run commands to disable, or do a lot more work to a farm thats been completed for years. I don't really think either of that is fair especially where I can only run commands to disable my farm because i'm staff. but I'll do what I have to.

@Akomine As cyphurs already pointed out the specs of my farm for me and what its gonna need done to it I wont go into depth on the details of how it works. unfortunately no, I can't just add a lever to disable it,
I'd really like a solution other than modify it or run commands to disable it, as again, I don't think modifying is something people should have to do.

also one thought I've been having that I would like to point out, adding this rule essentially adds a "farm policing"  rule to VillageCraft. (even if its temporary)
i felt this way about the Iron Golem farm ban too, which was undone.

"We're here to help you; not to police you." is one of the signs in the spawn tunnel.
This rule has policing written all over it  in my opinion.

yes i agree, this all seems very complicated and intimidating to new players, I think the role of staff should remain very laissez-faire and that farms should not be regulated and players should be allowed to do as they wish to ensure as close to a vanilla+ experience as possible

I strongly believe unplayable lag spikes are a stronger deterrent to new players, than regulations on industrial scale farms, which primarily affect long-time rich players.

[OctoGamer]

so, I have to either run commands to disable, or do a lot more work to a farm thats been completed for years. I don't really think either of that is fair especially where I can only run commands to disable my farm because i'm staff. but I'll do what I have to.

@Akomine As cyphurs already pointed out the specs of my farm for me and what its gonna need done to it I wont go into depth on the details of how it works. unfortunately no, I can't just add a lever to disable it,
I'd really like a solution other than modify it or run commands to disable it, as again, I don't think modifying is something people should have to do.

also one thought I've been having that I would like to point out, adding this rule essentially adds a "farm policing"  rule to VillageCraft. (even if its temporary)
i felt this way about the Iron Golem farm ban too, which was undone.

"We're here to help you; not to police you." is one of the signs in the spawn tunnel.
This rule has policing written all over it  in my opinion.

yes i agree, this all seems very complicated and intimidating to new players, I think the role of staff should remain very laissez-faire and that farms should not be regulated and players should be allowed to do as they wish to ensure as close to a vanilla+ experience as possible

I strongly believe unplayable lag spikes are a stronger deterrent to new players, than regulations on industrial scale farms, which primarily affect long-time rich players.

I get like, maybe 1 lag spike a day.

[Yvette]

so, I have to either run commands to disable, or do a lot more work to a farm thats been completed for years. I don't really think either of that is fair especially where I can only run commands to disable my farm because i'm staff. but I'll do what I have to.

@Akomine As cyphurs already pointed out the specs of my farm for me and what its gonna need done to it I wont go into depth on the details of how it works. unfortunately no, I can't just add a lever to disable it,
I'd really like a solution other than modify it or run commands to disable it, as again, I don't think modifying is something people should have to do.

also one thought I've been having that I would like to point out, adding this rule essentially adds a "farm policing"  rule to VillageCraft. (even if its temporary)
i felt this way about the Iron Golem farm ban too, which was undone.

"We're here to help you; not to police you." is one of the signs in the spawn tunnel.
This rule has policing written all over it  in my opinion.

yes i agree, this all seems very complicated and intimidating to new players, I think the role of staff should remain very laissez-faire and that farms should not be regulated and players should be allowed to do as they wish to ensure as close to a vanilla+ experience as possible

I strongly believe unplayable lag spikes are a stronger deterrent to new players, than regulations on industrial scale farms, which primarily affect long-time rich players.

I get like, maybe 1 lag spike a day.

The vast vast vast majority of players do not share your experience. I truly wish we did. We aren't doing this for fun.

[OctoGamer]

so, I have to either run commands to disable, or do a lot more work to a farm thats been completed for years. I don't really think either of that is fair especially where I can only run commands to disable my farm because i'm staff. but I'll do what I have to.

@Akomine As cyphurs already pointed out the specs of my farm for me and what its gonna need done to it I wont go into depth on the details of how it works. unfortunately no, I can't just add a lever to disable it,
I'd really like a solution other than modify it or run commands to disable it, as again, I don't think modifying is something people should have to do.

also one thought I've been having that I would like to point out, adding this rule essentially adds a "farm policing"  rule to VillageCraft. (even if its temporary)
i felt this way about the Iron Golem farm ban too, which was undone.

"We're here to help you; not to police you." is one of the signs in the spawn tunnel.
This rule has policing written all over it  in my opinion.

yes i agree, this all seems very complicated and intimidating to new players, I think the role of staff should remain very laissez-faire and that farms should not be regulated and players should be allowed to do as they wish to ensure as close to a vanilla+ experience as possible

I strongly believe unplayable lag spikes are a stronger deterrent to new players, than regulations on industrial scale farms, which primarily affect long-time rich players.

I get like, maybe 1 lag spike a day.

The vast vast vast majority of players do not share your experience. I truly wish we did. We aren't doing this for fun.

me, and my 3 friends I play with consistently every night all play lag free, except for occasional moments (that happen when i'm not even at my farm around 1am and cause the server to crash)

[TheLegend12369 (OP)]

Yes, we are there to help, not police. But if the wide majority of players vote yes on this and it goes into affect, aren't we helping them still? At this point it's mostly only staff that have huge farms anyway, and if the majority of the average players don't want them running because it's causing lag, we aren't helping them at all.

[OctoGamer]

still waiting for proof that they cause lag because as i've stated I don't experience this lag

[CyphurTheFox]

still waiting for proof that they cause lag because as i've stated I don't experience this lag

It is a possibility that the lag might not affect the specific activites you participate in. The lag where server tps drops does not manifest as a drop in frame rate, but as the slowing down of a lot of back end stuff. You'd notice it as redstone slowing down, mob spawning decreasing, and other changes involving the game mechanics that function in the lock-step tick system.

Some examples of in game activities heavily affected by a drop in tps:
Redstone (functions slower)
Mining (The drop in tps can cause a desync in block breaking, in resulting blocks previously thought to already be broken reappearing)
Exploring (the drop in tps heavily affects chunk loading/generation)

Could you please explain what you usually do on the server? It might explain why you dont experience the lag that often.

[Shensley]

still waiting for proof that they cause lag because as i've stated I don't experience this lag

It is a possibility that the lag might not affect the specific activites you participate in. The lag where server tps drops does not manifest as a drop in frame rate, but as the slowing down of a lot of back end stuff. You'd notice it as redstone slowing down, mob spawning decreasing, and other changes involving the game mechanics that function in the lock-step tick system.

Some examples of in game activities heavily affected by a drop in tps:
Redstone (functions slower)
Mining (The drop in tps can cause a desync in block breaking, in resulting blocks previously thought to already be broken reappearing)
Exploring (the drop in tps heavily affects chunk loading/generation)

Could you please explain what you usually do on the server? It might explain why you dont experience the lag that often.

Then why does everyone complain about frame drops

[CyphurTheFox]

still waiting for proof that they cause lag because as i've stated I don't experience this lag

It is a possibility that the lag might not affect the specific activites you participate in. The lag where server tps drops does not manifest as a drop in frame rate, but as the slowing down of a lot of back end stuff. You'd notice it as redstone slowing down, mob spawning decreasing, and other changes involving the game mechanics that function in the lock-step tick system.

Some examples of in game activities heavily affected by a drop in tps:
Redstone (functions slower)
Mining (The drop in tps can cause a desync in block breaking, in resulting blocks previously thought to already be broken reappearing)
Exploring (the drop in tps heavily affects chunk loading/generation)

Could you please explain what you usually do on the server? It might explain why you dont experience the lag that often.

Then why does everyone complain about frame drops

Dropping frames is a personal problem that can pertain to a specific PC. Better hardware means you dont drop frames.

The complaints I've seen are people complaining about having to break a block 5-6 times, which is very characteristic of a drop in tps. Other lag that I've seen people experience happens during PvE, where the low tps causes entity processing to slow down, and you can hit a mob with a knockback sword multiple times and it doesnt move.

[gerrit70]

Block lag has been pretty common as of late.

[Naomi]

I agree with Yvette on this one. As a causal player in love with the monotony of strip mining, it is frustrating when I have to mine nonstop. I understand you all aren't lagging, but a lot of us are. This is only until 1.16 and I would love for you all to enjoy what you want to do on the server. I just want to be able to have my enjoyment of mining and building.

Thank you Cyphur for looking into everything and trying to find a good solution for everyone.

I am full in favor for the outlines above, restricting farms until 1.16

[Yvette]

Before it goes to a vote I'd like @TheLegend12369 to revise based on input on this thread.

[TheLegend12369 (OP)]

This is the proposed edit to the motion:

1) Automatic or Industrialized Farms will no longer be allowed to be used when 10 or more people are on.
     (a) Farms have 5 minutes to comply once 10 or more players are online. Staff may give:
Immediately: a notice to disable,
          - After 5 minutes: a warning and kick if AFK,
          - After 10 minutes: a second warning and a kick.
          - After 15 minutes: a final warning, a kick.
          - After 30 minutes: proceed to regular punishments, and any other necessary intervention to stop the farm.
2) Industrial sized farms are defined as follows:
     (a) Volume > 4096 (16^3) for a random-tick based farm.
     (b) Entity Count > 256 for a spawner based farm
     (c) Volume > 32768 (32^3) for mob spawning based farm
     (d) Any Farm that involves sending entites (items or mobs) through nether portals
          - This class of farm applies once more than 5 people are on.
3) This rule expires fifteen days after VillageCraft updates to 1.16

The Signatories are as follows: Protoape (chef), Naomi, Brutalfive, theodorf, and Jack_Aubry (seaborgium). The motion was approved by the CM (TheLegend12369) and the following staff: Moderator TheLegend12369 , Admin Essos (Yvette), and Moderator CyphurTheFox.

[OctoGamer]

removed the bit about dismantling. if we kick them 3 times, they aren't listening, we can just go to punishment... dismantling is grief in my eyes.
also added a bit to clarify 10 or more means 11+ as luis had mentioned.

Also can we be clear that "more than 5" implies that 6 players are required for the rules to take effect?

also made this part clear, obviously with 10 though.

[Akomine]

Octo has a good point, why dismantle a farm if someone refuses to comply 3 times? Just proceed to regular punishments like tempban for a couple hours. Staff should avoid messing with farms physically, especially ones they don't understand fully. The text should actually be clear on this

Also, I think octo misread, since "10 or more" doesn't mean 11. I think he thought it was the old wording like "more than 5" meaning 6.

[OctoGamer]

Also, I think octo misread, since "10 or more" doesn't mean 11. I think he thought it was the old wording like "more than 5" meaning 6.

ya i did

[Yvette]

I'll probably put this to a vote once the current Parliamentary vote is done.

Speaking of which, go vote on it!

[CyphurTheFox]

This is the proposed edit to the motion:

1) Automatic or Industrialized Farms will no longer be allowed to be used when 10 or more people are on.
     (a) Farms have 5 minutes to comply once 10 or more players are online. Staff may give:
Immediately: a notice to disable,
          - After 5 minutes: a warning and kick if AFK,
          - After 10 minutes: a second warning and a kick.
          - After 15 minutes: a final warning, a kick.
          - After 30 minutes: proceed to regular punishments, and any other necessary intervention to stop the farm.
2) Industrial sized farms are defined as follows:
     (a) Volume > 4096 (16^3) for a random-tick based farm.
     (b) Entity Count > 256 for a spawner based farm
     (c) Volume > 32768 (32^3) for mob spawning based farm
     (d) Any Farm that involves sending entites (items or mobs) through nether portals
          - This class of farm applies once more than 5 people are on.
3) This rule expires fifteen days after VillageCraft updates to 1.16

The Signatories are as follows: Protoape (chef), Naomi, Brutalfive, theodorf, and Jack_Aubry (seaborgium). The motion was approved by the CM (TheLegend12369) and the following staff: Moderator TheLegend12369 , Admin Essos (Yvette), and Moderator CyphurTheFox.

May I suggest adding a fourth element permitting staff members to grant exceptions for farms provided:
a) The decision is approved by a significant quantity of staff (specific number tbd)
b) The decision is ostensibly for the public benefit.

The only reason I suggest a clause along these lines is due to the fact that there are public xp farms that cause little to no noticeable lag, but would be limited by this legislation. This clause would permit people to continue using these farms.

[Akomine]

I propose this minor edit to clean things up:

1) Automatic or Industrialized Farms will no longer be allowed to be used when 10 or more people are online (6 or more for farms involving nether portals).
     (a) Farms have 5 minutes to comply once 10 or more players are online.
     (b) Farms that involve nether portals have 5 minutes to comply once 6 or more players are online.
     (c) Staff may take the following actions:
          - Immediately: a notice to disable,
          - After 5 minutes: a warning and kick if AFK,
          - After 10 minutes: a second warning and a kick.
          - After 15 minutes: a final warning, a kick.
          - After 30 minutes: proceed to regular punishments, and any other necessary intervention to stop the farm.
2) Industrial sized farms are defined as follows:
     (a) Volume > 4096 (16^3) for a random-tick based farm.
     (b) Entity Count > 256 for a spawner based farm.
     (c) Volume > 32768 (32^3) for mob spawning based farm.
     (d) Any Farm that involves sending entites (items or mobs) through nether portals.
          - This class of farm must cease once 6 or more people are online.
3) This rule expires fifteen days after VillageCraft updates to 1.16

[TheLegend12369 (OP)]

I propose this minor edit to clean things up:

1) Automatic or Industrialized Farms will no longer be allowed to be used when 10 or more people are online (6 or more for farms involving nether portals).
     (a) Farms have 5 minutes to comply once 10 or more players are online.
     (b) Farms that involve nether portals have 5 minutes to comply once 6 or more players are online.
     (c) Staff may take the following actions:
          - Immediately: a notice to disable,
          - After 5 minutes: a warning and kick if AFK,
          - After 10 minutes: a second warning and a kick.
          - After 15 minutes: a final warning, a kick.
          - After 30 minutes: proceed to regular punishments, and any other necessary intervention to stop the farm.
2) Industrial sized farms are defined as follows:
     (a) Volume > 4096 (16^3) for a random-tick based farm.
     (b) Entity Count > 256 for a spawner based farm.
     (c) Volume > 32768 (32^3) for mob spawning based farm.
     (d) Any Farm that involves sending entites (items or mobs) through nether portals.
          - This class of farm must cease once 6 or more people are online.
3) This rule expires fifteen days after VillageCraft updates to 1.16

This is a great rewrite, I like it

[OctoGamer]

can we get a part in the rewrite about not physically touching them? still seems pretty vauge in there.

[luisc99]

can we get a part in the rewrite about not physically touching them? still seems pretty vauge in there.

I think this is important, there should be explicit rules in here preventing farms from being modified without the owner's explicit consent

[TheLegend12369 (OP)]

can we get a part in the rewrite about not physically touching them? still seems pretty vauge in there.

1) Automatic or Industrialized Farms will no longer be allowed to be used when 10 or more people are online (6 or more for farms involving nether portals).
     (a) Farms have 5 minutes to comply once 10 or more players are online.
     (b) Farms that involve nether portals have 5 minutes to comply once 6 or more players are online.
     (c) Staff may take the following actions:
          - Immediately: a notice to disable,
          - After 5 minutes: a warning and kick if AFK,
          - After 10 minutes: a second warning and a kick.
          - After 15 minutes: a final warning, a kick.
          - After 30 minutes: proceed to regular punishments, and any other necessary intervention to stop the farm.
2) Industrial sized farms are defined as follows:
     (a) Volume > 4096 (16^3) for a random-tick based farm.
     (b) Entity Count > 256 for a spawner based farm.
     (c) Volume > 32768 (32^3) for mob spawning based farm.
     (d) Any Farm that involves sending entites (items or mobs) through nether portals.
          - This class of farm must cease once 6 or more people are online.
3) This rule expires fifteen days after VillageCraft updates to 1.16
4) Staff are not allowed to destroy any part of a farm, regardless of amount of offences.

[Akomine]

I propose one more edit to clean things up with new ideas incorporated:

1) Automatic or Industrialized Farms are not allowed to be used when 10 or more people are online (6 or more for farms involving nether portals).
     (a) Farms have 5 minutes to comply once 10 or more players are online.
     (b) Farms that involve nether portals have 5 minutes to comply once 6 or more players are online.
     (c) Staff may take the following actions:
          - Immediately: a notice to disable,
          - After 5 minutes: a warning and kick if AFK,
          - After 10 minutes: a second warning and a kick.
          - After 15 minutes: a final warning and a kick.
          - After 30 minutes: proceed to regular punishments, and stop the farm if necessary (such as toggling an on-off lever) without physical edits.
     (d) Staff may not take the following action:
          - Physically edit the farm without consent of the owner.

2) Automatic or Industrialized Farms are defined as follows:
     (a) Volume > 4096 (16^3) for a random tick-based farm.
     (b) Entity Count > 256 for a spawner-based farm.
     (c) Volume > 32768 (32^3) for mob spawning-based farm.
     (d) Any Farm that involves sending entities (items or mobs) through nether portals.
          - This class of farm must cease once 6 or more people are online.

3) Exemptions to rules 1 and 2:
     (a) Any farm may be considered exempt of these rules if:
          - A Staff Vote decides unanimously in favour of exemption, or;
          - A simple vote of MPs on the Parliament Board has a majority decide in favour of exemption (official Parliament vote not needed),
          and;
     (b) The farm is ostensibly for the public benefit and is freely available for use by the public.

4) This rule expires fifteen days after VillageCraft updates to 1.16

[TheLegend12369 (OP)]

I propose one more edit to clean things up with new ideas incorporated:

1) Automatic or Industrialized Farms are not allowed to be used when 10 or more people are online (6 or more for farms involving nether portals).
     (a) Farms have 5 minutes to comply once 10 or more players are online.
     (b) Farms that involve nether portals have 5 minutes to comply once 6 or more players are online.
     (c) Staff may take the following actions:
          - Immediately: a notice to disable,
          - After 5 minutes: a warning and kick if AFK,
          - After 10 minutes: a second warning and a kick.
          - After 15 minutes: a final warning and a kick.
          - After 30 minutes: proceed to regular punishments, and stop the farm if necessary (such as toggling an on-off lever) without physical edits.
     (d) Staff may not take the following action:
          - Physically edit the farm without consent of the owner.

2) Automatic or Industrialized Farms are defined as follows:
     (a) Volume > 4096 (16^3) for a random-tick based farm.
     (b) Entity Count > 256 for a spawner based farm.
     (c) Volume > 32768 (32^3) for mob spawning based farm.
     (d) Any Farm that involves sending entities (items or mobs) through nether portals.
          - This class of farm must cease once 6 or more people are online.

3) Exemptions to rules 1 and 2:
     (a) Any farm may be considered exempt of these rules if:
          - A Staff Vote decides unanimously in favour of exemption, or;
          - A simple vote of MPs on the Parliament Board has a majority decide in favour of exemption (official Parliament vote not needed),
          and;
     (b) The farm is ostensibly for the public benefit and is freely available for use by the public.

4) This rule expires fifteen days after VillageCraft updates to 1.16

Thanks bb <3 looks great

[Yvette]

question id like to post to people who are anti-farm and want a "vanilla as possible experience"

We currently regulate farms. Players are not permitted to use one account to farm and another account for regular play.
This is farm regulation that "impacts vanilla experience and could scare off new players". Are you against this?

[OctoGamer]

question id like to post to people who are anti-farm and want a "vanilla as possible experience"

We currently regulate farms. Players are not permitted to use one account to farm and another account for regular play.
This is farm regulation that "impacts vanilla experience and could scare off new players". Are you against this?

that is a totally different type of regulation than this. as was the Iron Farm one.

[Lividup64]

question id like to post to people who are anti-farm and want a "vanilla as possible experience"

We currently regulate farms. Players are not permitted to use one account to farm and another account for regular play.
This is farm regulation that "impacts vanilla experience and could scare off new players". Are you against this?

That's not the same thing. People have bases around their farms, these people would have their player experience hindered at "peak" times. Having an alt at a farm whilst they're running around doing something else is different. Although, if the evidence suggests that having an alt at a farm isn't harmful either I wouldn't be against removing that regulation either.

[Yvette]

question id like to post to people who are anti-farm and want a "vanilla as possible experience"

We currently regulate farms. Players are not permitted to use one account to farm and another account for regular play.
This is farm regulation that "impacts vanilla experience and could scare off new players". Are you against this?

that is a totally different type of regulation than this. as was the Iron Farm one.

of course its different, but its still a regulation and a form of "policing".