Author Topic: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas  (Read 2931 times)

Offline gerrit70 (OP)

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A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« on: 17 January 2021, 12:19:52 AM »
Hey Guys, I just wanted to preface this with a little disclaimer, I love all of you, I think you're all really cool people and all that jazz but I figured some feedback would be cool nonetheless.

I guess the first thing I wanted to say is that we have a lot of new Australian and kiwi players who play at relatively irregular hours for most staff. Seeing as Mossy is no longer staff :( I think it might be a good idea to get a moderator who lives in that time zone or has a really wacked up sleep schedule or something. I just think it would help grow the player base from those countries if there are people who can help them when they are online.

The second thing I wanted to suggest was to maybe to shift the spawn point to the one that has been being prepared for a while; I understand the value of tradition and that the spawn has been that way for a long time. But the benefits, in my opinion, far outweigh the downsides. The path into the market from spawn in unclear and from that point there is no clear path. The new spawn has a very nice transport to the outlands only a couple of blocks away, and it has a very clear path to it. Although I think the church looks kinda dumb as a pub and we should change it back. Either way I think the new spawn is very nicely done and it will probably retain new players better.

Yeah, I hope this sparks a productive discussion about how we can improve; also feel free to add any more suggestions or ideas if you have them!
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Offline Naomi

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #1 on: 17 January 2021, 12:27:57 AM »
I think the first idea is a really good one! To further this discussion about staff, I think perhaps switching out some of the less helpful staff with players who really want to help others would be beneficial to the server. If a staffer doesn't even want to help players then maybe they shouldn't be staff. Isn't that the whole point?
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Offline Brutalfive

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #2 on: 17 January 2021, 12:29:05 AM »
Could we also look at staff, and find a way to ensure that all staff remain motivated, and if a staff member is no longer motivated and no longer doing their job, they should be replaced by an eager new recruit who can bring new ideas and energy to the server. (shown thru the likes of cy and legend as they brought a lot of amazing new energy to the server)

Offline sophsparks

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #3 on: 17 January 2021, 12:31:01 AM »
I think the first idea is a really good one! To further this discussion about staff, I think perhaps switching out some of the less helpful staff with players who really want to help others would be beneficial to the server. If a staffer doesn't even want to help players then maybe they shouldn't be staff. Isn't that the whole point?

I agree with Naomi. I think it would be very beneficial to have more staff members that actually want to help players, instead of just wanting power.

Offline Daypath

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #4 on: 17 January 2021, 12:55:53 AM »
yeah...... a few days ago AbysmalSimp asked for help on expanding a village and was just lowkey denied, and had to wait for cyphur to get on. (note: the staff member wasn't even like busy or had an excuse)
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Offline Akomine

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #5 on: 17 January 2021, 01:39:33 AM »
Yeah it is great to have mods from strange fantasy lands like oz and nz. A little list of the weirdos from those places might help us.



Over the last several months there has been a lot of discussion on a new spawn location. Not everyone has agreed on everything, but a lot of people have agreed that Qualia has some problems with being the spawn in its present state.

I actually don't know where I stand really. I often tell people on this issue that I'm a bit too out of touch to be able to offer a great perspective.

For these reasons, I'd like to propose multiple spawns. When a player joins, there is a random chance to spawn in a few different places. Maybe Qualia, maybe a new place such as the one that has been prepared recently. This way, we can keep an eye on what newbs tend to respond better to, and it will help inform us moving forward.

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Offline gerrit70 (OP)

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #6 on: 18 January 2021, 09:43:50 PM »
Yeah it is great to have mods from strange fantasy lands like oz and nz. A little list of the weirdos from those places might help us.



Over the last several months there has been a lot of discussion on a new spawn location. Not everyone has agreed on everything, but a lot of people have agreed that Qualia has some problems with being the spawn in its present state.

I actually don't know where I stand really. I often tell people on this issue that I'm a bit too out of touch to be able to offer a great perspective.

For these reasons, I'd like to propose multiple spawns. When a player joins, there is a random chance to spawn in a few different places. Maybe Qualia, maybe a new place such as the one that has been prepared recently. This way, we can keep an eye on what newbs tend to respond better to, and it will help inform us moving forward.

Yeah that sounds good. I think seeing what works best would be great, we could temporarily make some of the spawns outside of Qualia, but I think it would be best to keep it in/near the historic location. I could make a couple of sample spawn areas that we could try out and see the results of each one; which we could then potentially incorporate into the current spawn.
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Offline TheLegend12369

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #7 on: 19 January 2021, 08:11:10 AM »
I have always been a supporter of removing staff that no longer get on and help people. I realize that staff members are players too, but it should be expected that before you get on to your personal business that a staff member should make sure no one needs anything, and I also think it is important that staff members remain active and present in the community. The idea that someone should remain staff because they were helpful in the past seems absurd to me. We could even demote them from staff but still give them the editor role if we want to "pay our respects" to their service to our server.

Offline LilEgg0

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #8 on: 19 January 2021, 08:58:19 AM »
It wouldn't hurt to try something new, I completely agree. I have been thinking of a sort of "Mod In Training" who has the ability to enforce rules, but not do severe things like bans, or /PT

Offline Naomi

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #9 on: 19 January 2021, 11:08:51 AM »
That's a nice thought LilEgg0 but that's essentially what a Mod is atm
There are a lot of attitudes going on around here, Don't let me get one.

reasons to vote naomi: second sexiest person on the ballot, slight southern drawl, has won woman of the year every year since 1899 (the mainstream media doesn't want you to know)

vote for naomi idiots

like if you need to me to write out a fully fledged post to persuade you i will, but i just prefer we avoid all that effort and you vote for naomi

Naomi is hot. Hot cm is nice. 8) 8)

Offline gerrit70 (OP)

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #10 on: 21 January 2021, 12:53:36 AM »
So I've been thinking about this more and I've come up with a few main problems with spawn and the new player experience in general.

The first issue is new player retention, although the spawn tunnel is a classic part of the experience it can be disorienting and just generally weird to spawn into. The first impression of the server probably shouldn't be a leaky, archaic tunnel. I think that new players are very likely to leave almost immediately after they see the spawn. First impressions are everything for a new player looking for a server, and I dont think that the tunnel provides that hooking and engaging experience.

Fortunately, Ten has proposed a very good solution for this problem. He has discovered and tested out a plugin on his own server called tutorial, or something along those lines. Essentially you spawn near an animal, which tells you to click it. Once you click this animal it will teleport you around the area showing you important things. For the new player this could be things like the market, the hotel, and the teleport to the outlands. Showing is generally better than telling, and this small tutorial is both engaging and provides information in a way that signs cannot.

The second main issue is new player orientation. Recently I started a spawn village where new players could get on their feet and gather materials and such before going on to join more advanced villages or to form their own. One of the main issues I have is explaining all of the rules and quirks of the server to these new players. As much as I like helping the new players, it is difficult to explain things when they haven't read the spawn tunnel, or the information wasn't retentive enough for them to remember. As such, the orientation of these players often falls to the player base which can be time consuming and a lot of players aren't very good at explaining the server in an appealing way. Many new players also leave around this time simply because they don't really understand how everything works.

The solution to this issue could also be the tutorial plugin, this tutorial would very easily explain the server to players in a way that they will remember, and will therefore be able to be more self sufficient immediately. This plugin would also solve the issue of there being no clear path from spawn to the outlands or to the market. By shifting spawn to the new area and implementing the tutorial, the new player will be shown the areas in person so they can identify them, and then head that direction if that is what they desire. The new spawn also provides a clear path to both the outlands and the rest of Qualia, this gives the players informed choice, and they are more likely to stay around after being oriented.

In conclusion, what I would like to see happen is have the spawn shifted to the new spawn soon as well as having the tutorial plugin implemented. This could be used in conjunction with other reforms to make the new player experience better and less convoluted. I believe that these changes will improve player retention and orientation, leading to more active players on the server, which is always a good thing!
« Last Edit: 21 January 2021, 02:15:41 AM by gerrit70 »
Guh

I'm a huge faggot and I love sucking airs cock.

It is abysmal that any one person would take try to limit the happiness that Gerrit70 has brought to this dull place.

Free Gerrit70 from his chains!

holy fuck gerrit you're autistic.

Offline Naomi

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #11 on: 21 January 2021, 02:16:40 AM »
I have seen the tutorial chicken. It is well formatted and easy to understand if you were a new player. It could show the crash course of how to play on VC and completely optional if a new player doesn't want it. I think it's a great alternative to the spawn tunnel and way easier to understand.
There are a lot of attitudes going on around here, Don't let me get one.

reasons to vote naomi: second sexiest person on the ballot, slight southern drawl, has won woman of the year every year since 1899 (the mainstream media doesn't want you to know)

vote for naomi idiots

like if you need to me to write out a fully fledged post to persuade you i will, but i just prefer we avoid all that effort and you vote for naomi

Naomi is hot. Hot cm is nice. 8) 8)

Offline Brutalfive

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #12 on: 21 January 2021, 12:23:39 PM »
I personally love the idea of an introduction animal, it certainly seems like it could help new players.

I, like Gerrit, also have a village dedicated to new and poor players, to help them get on their feet before they decide to either start their own village or join a more 'advanced' village. The challenges faced by new players should certainly not go unresolved, as many of them do become overwhelmed with all the information given to them in that small, tight, crowed tunnel. Not only would this introduction animal help our newest members, but those older players who want to assist them in finding their way on Village Craft.

Finally, while I do personally love the current spawn as its where I and others first spawned when we joined the server, and it has sentimental value to our community, we must realise why we are still defending the reason we want to keep it as the main spawn. I believe, upon self reflection, it may be due to our complacent nature, 'why fix something if its not broken'. Unfortunately while it is not broken, it is no longer fit for purpose, so we must at least consider other options. Personally, I have not made a decision myself on which spawn should be picked, but that is largely due to the lack of self investigation into new the 'new spawn'.

In summary, I love the idea of an introduction animal, and I'm open minded to the idea of changing our spawn location to the 'new spawn' upon more self-investigation and community discussion.

Offline Naomi

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #13 on: 21 January 2021, 12:33:59 PM »
I think Qualia is not the issue with a spawn, I just think the spawn Tunnel is confusing and a bit out of the way. I think if we chose a location more central to market, since that is where a majority of players spend their time in Qualia, along with a Tutorial Chicken it could help new players not be so lost in the early days. I myself try to help out as much as I can but as Gerritt said it can be a lot explaining it over and over again and this easier tutorial system would take more work off of Staff and Players shoulders. I like keeping spawn in Qualia, but change it to a more user friendly interface.
There are a lot of attitudes going on around here, Don't let me get one.

reasons to vote naomi: second sexiest person on the ballot, slight southern drawl, has won woman of the year every year since 1899 (the mainstream media doesn't want you to know)

vote for naomi idiots

like if you need to me to write out a fully fledged post to persuade you i will, but i just prefer we avoid all that effort and you vote for naomi

Naomi is hot. Hot cm is nice. 8) 8)

Offline LilEgg0

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #14 on: 25 January 2021, 01:51:37 AM »
That's a nice thought LilEgg0 but that's essentially what a Mod is atm
I suppose you're right, but what about something below that? Someone with much less permissions and someone who is just there to help keep the peace and learn, so it can be decided by the staff whether or not they will be admitted

Offline CyphurTheFox

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #15 on: 25 January 2021, 07:42:10 AM »
I think Qualia is not the issue with a spawn, I just think the spawn Tunnel is confusing and a bit out of the way. I think if we chose a location more central to market, since that is where a majority of players spend their time in Qualia, along with a Tutorial Chicken it could help new players not be so lost in the early days. I myself try to help out as much as I can but as Gerritt said it can be a lot explaining it over and over again and this easier tutorial system would take more work off of Staff and Players shoulders. I like keeping spawn in Qualia, but change it to a more user-friendly interface.


As far as moving spawn goes I think the new spawn that has been sitting in the south quadrant is a great candidate. Ten and I were there the other day planning out how the new player spawn experience might go in this space.

I think it's best to avoid situating spawn in/near the main market for a few reasons.
Firstly, the number of dropped_item entities in the market is staggering (all the showcases) and can cause clientside lag, not the best impression we want to leave on a new player. (First impressions make or break the "sale")
Secondly, the market is huge and sprawling, as well as being both confusing and a bit of a chore to navigate if you don't know all the warps, let alone without later game tools like elytra and epearls.

The new spawn I think solves these issues handily with the Qualia Minimart, a significantly pared-down version of the market that stocks a number of things useful to new players. The spawn is far enough away that the qualia market doesn't load, and it's small enough to be easily navigable on foot. I think adding a fast-travel portal to the main mart, tucked away so as to not distract from the minimart, and a separate "qualia market" tutorial animal that shows common materials and various warps would be significantly more player-friendly than dropping new players in the market directly.

To address the idea of multiple spawns, I think that the idea of a player first randomly spawning in one of a few possible villages is problematic at best, as it means making multiple tutorials, one for each spawn point, god forbid we want to change them in the future. It also can generate some confusion with players, especially if multiple players arrive as a group intending to play together, or friends invite friends to join. I think a more balanced solution would to make the outlands warp balloon in the new spawn take you to one of these random fixed spawn points and make the main spawn the new spawn w/ qualia minimart. This allows players to easily find their footing in the starter villages, provides a consistent tutorial experience for every player, and allows players who invited friends to easily find and meet up with them.



As for the old spawn tunnel, ten proposed to me an idea I quite liked that would allow us to preserve OG player nostalgia while not detracting from the new player experience. In short, we would keep the spawn tunnel in its current location relative to the new spawn (in the back of the pub), but haphazardly block it off in a way that still kinda allows passage, to serve as an easter egg for the older players. New players would spawn in the entrance to the pub, with clear signposting suggesting they walk out and explore the world, helping discourage new players from checking out the old spawn tunnel until they've had a chance to get properly acquainted with the server. This also can help build that "urban explorer" feeling when checking out qualia that makes it so much fun to investigate.


How to kinda hide a spawn tunnel (Click to Expand)
« Last Edit: 27 January 2021, 04:34:41 PM by CyphurTheFox »
Lol next time don't go places you shouldn't be.
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Offline gerrit70 (OP)

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Re: A Couple of Maybe Cool Ideas
« Reply #16 on: 14 February 2021, 03:30:21 AM »
I think Qualia is not the issue with a spawn, I just think the spawn Tunnel is confusing and a bit out of the way. I think if we chose a location more central to market, since that is where a majority of players spend their time in Qualia, along with a Tutorial Chicken it could help new players not be so lost in the early days. I myself try to help out as much as I can but as Gerritt said it can be a lot explaining it over and over again and this easier tutorial system would take more work off of Staff and Players shoulders. I like keeping spawn in Qualia, but change it to a more user-friendly interface.


As far as moving spawn goes I think the new spawn that has been sitting in the south quadrant is a great candidate. Ten and I were there the other day planning out how the new player spawn experience might go in this space.

I think it's best to avoid situating spawn in/near the main market for a few reasons.
Firstly, the number of dropped_item entities in the market is staggering (all the showcases) and can cause clientside lag, not the best impression we want to leave on a new player. (First impressions make or break the "sale")
Secondly, the market is huge and sprawling, as well as being both confusing and a bit of a chore to navigate if you don't know all the warps, let alone without later game tools like elytra and epearls.

The new spawn I think solves these issues handily with the Qualia Minimart, a significantly pared-down version of the market that stocks a number of things useful to new players. The spawn is far enough away that the qualia market doesn't load, and it's small enough to be easily navigable on foot. I think adding a fast-travel portal to the main mart, tucked away so as to not distract from the minimart, and a separate "qualia market" tutorial animal that shows common materials and various warps would be significantly more player-friendly than dropping new players in the market directly.

To address the idea of multiple spawns, I think that the idea of a player first randomly spawning in one of a few possible villages is problematic at best, as it means making multiple tutorials, one for each spawn point, god forbid we want to change them in the future. It also can generate some confusion with players, especially if multiple players arrive as a group intending to play together, or friends invite friends to join. I think a more balanced solution would to make the outlands warp balloon in the new spawn take you to one of these random fixed spawn points and make the main spawn the new spawn w/ qualia minimart. This allows players to easily find their footing in the starter villages, provides a consistent tutorial experience for every player, and allows players who invited friends to easily find and meet up with them.



As for the old spawn tunnel, ten proposed to me an idea I quite liked that would allow us to preserve OG player nostalgia while not detracting from the new player experience. In short, we would keep the spawn tunnel in its current location relative to the new spawn (in the back of the pub), but haphazardly block it off in a way that still kinda allows passage, to serve as an easter egg for the older players. New players would spawn in the entrance to the pub, with clear signposting suggesting they walk out and explore the world, helping discourage new players from checking out the old spawn tunnel until they've had a chance to get properly acquainted with the server. This also can help build that "urban explorer" feeling when checking out qualia that makes it so much fun to investigate.


How to kinda hide a spawn tunnel (Click to Expand)

I like all of this, very good ideas. Are there any updates from implementing the tutorial plugin and moving the spawn location? From what I've heard these are both possible, there just hasn't been much movement enactment wise.
Guh

I'm a huge faggot and I love sucking airs cock.

It is abysmal that any one person would take try to limit the happiness that Gerrit70 has brought to this dull place.

Free Gerrit70 from his chains!

holy fuck gerrit you're autistic.